NBC says Comair is not an airline

[philo beddoe]

My prediction is a small increase in turbobprop fleets, along with lots more 70 seat jets, and the phase-out of 50 seaters.

I really think a lot of EAS flying will remain t-trop or even switch from jet to t-prop. People like jets more, I agree, but with EAS I think that beggars will not likely end up being choosers.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Comair????

I thought that after all the money "Comair" made on PFT, the latest idea was apparently to charge "pilots" for computer server time.........Geez, even the Freedumb Air a$$wipes didn't do that......BTW NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!

 

[AutoBus]

What exactly are you arguing, Auto? Regional airlines aren't real airlines, or regional airline pilots aren't real airline pilots?

Sounds like a fat logbook tends to lead to a head with the same size.

Defensive aren't we, no not at all, pilots are pilots. We fly for whoever we can and try survive day to day like everyone else.

The point of the discussion was, is Comair (or any regional a real airline).

Well maybe we need to look at it this way, there are very, very few regional airlines these days, only a few come to mind, Midwest, Cape Air, Big Sky, Great Lakes, CommutAir, Air Midwest and maybe a few others. They may have marketing or code sharing agreements with other airlines, but for the most part they do thier own thing, have thier own identity, etc.

Most RJ operators are not Airlines, they are service providers, they are the lowest bidder, they have No identity. They only have 1 customer (mainline) and are simply the lowest cost provider of that service. If someone cheaper comes along, they get replaced. It's a commodity, like peanuts, paper, oil, pork bellies, etc. Thier commodity is transportation of seats, seats is the key word, an RJ operator does NOT care if the seat is filled, An AIRLINE does.

After a long maintenance delay, an RJ operator will be inclined to fly an EMPTY plane on a roundtrip (just to collect the contract fee) Whereas Airline would have the judgement to cancel the flight.

 

[AutoBus]

My prediction is a small increase in turbobprop fleets, along with lots more 70 seat jets, and the phase-out of 50 seaters.

I really think a lot of EAS flying will remain t-trop .

likely to happen as the industry re-invents itself. Larger T-props like the ATR42 and &@ have pretty good economics on the short hall stuff, starts to go down hill on the longer routes. well that is the yield is better on the short hall than on the long hual stuff, so it works. Aircraft like the 1900's, j32's are basket cases when it comes to cost, way to expensive to operate on most routes, unless it's thin, short and high yield.

 

[BoilerUP]

Midwest, Cape Air, Big Sky, Great Lakes, CommutAir, Air Midwest and maybe a few others. They may have marketing or code sharing agreements with other airlines, but for the most part they do thier own thing, have thier own identity, etc.

Um...Great Lakes contracts with UAL, CommutAir contracts with US Airways, Air Midwest does some of their own stuff but I think they fly under US code.

I could be mistaken though...I have a skinny logbook

 

[foofighter145]

deep breathe...

nah forget it...I'm beating a dead horse...

 

[T-Gates]

CommutAir contracts with US Airways

Try again.....

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Defensive aren't we, no not at all, pilots are pilots. We fly for whoever we can and try survive day to day like everyone else.

The point of the discussion was, is Comair (or any regional a real airline).

Well maybe we need to look at it this way, there are very, very few regional airlines these days, only a few come to mind, Midwest, Cape Air, Big Sky, Great Lakes, CommutAir, Air Midwest and maybe a few others. They may have marketing or code sharing agreements with other airlines, but for the most part they do thier own thing, have thier own identity, etc.

Most RJ operators are not Airlines, they are service providers, they are the lowest bidder, they have No identity. They only have 1 customer (mainline) and are simply the lowest cost provider of that service. If someone cheaper comes along, they get replaced. It's a commodity, like peanuts, paper, oil, pork bellies, etc. Thier commodity is transportation of seats, seats is the key word, an RJ operator does NOT care if the seat is filled, An AIRLINE does.

After a long maintenance delay, an RJ operator will be inclined to fly an EMPTY plane on a roundtrip (just to collect the contract fee) Whereas Airline would have the judgement to cancel the flight.

I don't know much...but I do know that Autobus is 100% correct and I understand the point that he and FooFighter are trying to make...some of you guys are missing it.

-Neal

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Webster's dictionary

Airline (noun) - : an air transportation system including its equipment, routes, operating personnel, and management

Sounds like Comair is an airline to me. I see the big point trying to be made here, but if you are recognized and regulated by the FAA as an entity that transports people or property by air, you are an airline my friend.

Boyd is an idiot.

 

[moscowcfi]

NBC aviation analyst Micheal Boyd said this morning on the 8am national news that Comair is not an airline at all, and the public needs to understand that.

"Comair is nothing more than an entity that leases flight crews to Delta Airlines."

I guess that about says it.

The statement from Boyd is about as ignorant as someone stating that Delta is not really an airline because it simply acts as a travel agency to get people on Comair flights. That would be stupid and so is his assessment.

 

[DDpaysoff]

I thought that after all the money "Comair" made on PFT, the latest idea was apparently to charge "pilots" for computer server time.........Geez, even the Freedumb Air a$$wipes didn't do that......BTW NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!

Blah,

 

[DDpaysoff]

Blah.

 

[Well-hung Start]

yup, t'iz true

Canadair never imagined its experiment of popping a few 'fuse plugs in a dying bizjet model would sell more than 50 planes.

But the main reason RJ's took hold is because of exactly what this "expert" said.....it enabled a "C"-scale paystructure for the legacy carriers.....jet-lift at turboprop [i-don't-givafuk-how-low-the-pay-is-'cause-I'm-building-PIC-to-jump-to-the-Majors] prices. Hahahaha.

The regionals are really the outsourcing contractors for expendable, cheap labor. The RJ and regional airlines are the ultimate union-busting tool for airline management which, historically, has had a hard time defending itself against threatened pilot strikes due to the unique industry combination of very high overhead with very high-skill labor. Thus, striking pilots could not be replaced quickly enough to offset the cash hemorrhage of a pilot strike. So pilots always had the upper hand. That is why a B-747 captain got paid $400,000 to make 2 trips to Tokyo each month.

But those days are over. Introducing the latest tool: Turbo-Whipsaw 2000. Now, payscales are just where management likes them: Low with continuous downward pressure. Look how aircrew leasing companies (CHQ, ASA, iFly, etc) are being "rewarded" with "lots more 70-seat RJ's" (like 8 at a time!) for being the "lowest cost operator". It's a total joke to call them airlines. The "121 Operating Certificate" has been hijacked as a tool for enabling unethical, predatory anti-labor tactics.

But we think we're living the dream.

 

[spinproof]

Post deleted

 

[doh]

Well hung,

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[CA1900]

Um... CommutAir contracts with US Airways....

Um... CommutAir hasn't flown under US Airways' banner in over 4 years. Don't let the paint job fool you.

 

[ORFflyer]

Lighten Up!

from http://www.borowitzreport.com/




STRANDED TRAVELERS INFORMED THAT AIRLINE DOES NOT EXIST

Non-existent Spokesman Apologizes to Thousands

Thousands of stranded holiday travelers unable to reach their Christmas destinations over the weekend were stunned to learn that the airline they had booked seats on, Comair, does not exist.

At first, Comair had blamed the cancellation of thousands of flights on a computer glitch, but with the possibility looming that travelers would soon discover that the airline itself did not exist, it decided to come clean.

“We are sorry if our imaginary status has in any way inconvenienced holiday travelers,” said non-existent company spokesman Cheryl McKree. “I want to apologize to all of them on behalf of Comair and its 1500 fictitious employees.”

She added that while the passengers’ checked baggage did in fact exist, Comair had absolutely no idea where any of it was.

The news that Comair was nothing more than a figment of the imagination was a bitter pill for many of the stranded passengers to swallow.

“It was one thing when the airlines started getting rid of in-flight meals,” said Sally Darnell, 33, who had hoped to visit her family in Cincinnati on Christmas. “But when the airlines start getting rid of the airlines, I think that’s going a bit too far.”

But Davis Combs, 27, who found himself stranded at the Charlotte airport, was more philosophical: “This means that I won’t be able to spend the holidays with my in-laws, so I’m cool with it.”

Elsewhere, in her first holiday letter from behind bars, Martha Stewart called for better conditions in prison, saying that the food was bad and the stock tips were terrible.

 

[BoilerUP]

doh!

...like I said, I could be wrong about the whole US-Commutair thing Are they doing the CAL Connection flying out of CLE? If so, my apologies on the B1900 operater mixup!

I think both sides of this argument are making valid points, its just that both sides have decided to ignore the other's POV.

 

[Dodge]

AutoBus is right. Take Mesaba for instance. We own nothing. No planes, no gates, no sims, not even the building that HQ is in. We might own some ground power and bag carts, but I am not too sure.

If the flight is booked to zero pax both legs on a MEM-GPT-MEM turn, we will go just to collect the fee for departure.

Regional AIRLINE, hah! More like temp. employment agency.

 

[bart]

I think you will see RJs and the regional carriers die with the so-called "legacy carriers". The LCCs do not operate the hallowed RJ... why is that? I believe it is because they have discovered they are too expensive to operate and cannot get revenue realization for the increased service level the RJs offer.

If not then why aren't they all over them?

Is Independence making money?

Why not?

 

[:-)]

This thread must not be real. If it were real, we'd have already heard about the merits of the E170, and how B6 is going to clean our collective clocks with said Embraer. What's wrong lowecur, CAT GOT YOUR TONGUE?

 

[Otto]

I think you guys that are bothered by all of this are being waaaaaay too sensitive. It's like the guys I fly with that are always upset about being called a "regional" pilot. Last time I checked the airplane was called a Canadair REGIONAL JET. Big deal...get over it. If you're that insecure about flying small planes, get a frikin interview with someone who flys larger aircraft. My experience has been the whiners never have their apps in with somebody else and if that's the case, I don't want to hear about it.

 

[N813CA]

I can't see how you are right when the DOT says:

DOT 211-04
Contact: Dave Smallen, Tel.: (202) 366-5568
Friday, December 17, 2004

Weekly News Digest


BTS Reclassifies Airlines for 2005. The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Bureau of Transportation Statistics has issued the 2005 airline groupings based on annual revenues. For the first time, Comair and JetBlue Airways are classified as major carriers with more than $1 billion in annual revenue. Sun Country Airlines and USA 3000 Airlines have been classified as national airlines – those with $100 million to $1 billion in revenues – and SkyKing Airlines was included in the large regional airline category, consisting of carriers with revenues of $20 million to $100 million. For the complete listing, see http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/accounting_and_reporting_directives/number_276.html. Contact: Dave Smallen: 202-366-5568.

 

[dwcaviator]

Well maybe we need to look at it this way, there are very, very few regional airlines these days, only a few come to mind, Midwest, Cape Air, Big Sky, Great Lakes, CommutAir, Air Midwest and maybe a few others. They may have marketing or code sharing agreements with other airlines, but for the most part they do thier own thing, have thier own identity, etc

Right on Autobus. Rarely have I seen such a well-reasoned rant. Last I checked, none of the actual regional airlines you mentioned are running out and buying RJ's. Cape Air started mixing in some ATR's with their 402's. It might be fun to fly a RJ, but I like knowing the doors won't be locked when I show up for work tomorow. Props forever!

 

[AV8700]

Canadair never imagined its experiment of popping a few 'fuse plugs in a dying bizjet model would sell more than 50 planes.

But the main reason RJ's took hold is because of exactly what this "expert" said.....it enabled a "C"-scale paystructure for the legacy carriers.....jet-lift at turboprop [i-don't-givafuk-how-low-the-pay-is-'cause-I'm-building-PIC-to-jump-to-the-Majors] prices. Hahahaha.

The regionals are really the outsourcing contractors for expendable, cheap labor. The RJ and regional airlines are the ultimate union-busting tool for airline management which, historically, has had a hard time defending itself against threatened pilot strikes due to the unique industry combination of very high overhead with very high-skill labor. Thus, striking pilots could not be replaced quickly enough to offset the cash hemorrhage of a pilot strike. So pilots always had the upper hand. That is why a B-747 captain got paid $400,000 to make 2 trips to Tokyo each month.

But those days are over. Introducing the latest tool: Turbo-Whipsaw 2000. Now, payscales are just where management likes them: Low with continuous downward pressure. Look how aircrew leasing companies (CHQ, ASA, iFly, etc) are being "rewarded" with "lots more 70-seat RJ's" (like 8 at a time!) for being the "lowest cost operator". It's a total joke to call them airlines. The "121 Operating Certificate" has been hijacked as a tool for enabling unethical, predatory anti-labor tactics.

But we think we're living the dream.

Well, aren't many of these so called union-busting airlines represented by ALPA? They sure have done a lot or a little, however you look at it, to contribute to the current situation.