NBC says Comair is not an airline

[JECKEL]

NBC aviation analyst Micheal Boyd said this morning on the 8am national news that Comair is not an airline at all, and the public needs to understand that.

"Comair is nothing more than an entity that leases flight crews to Delta Airlines."

I guess that about says it.

 

[chperplt]

All I can do is laugh... Mr. Boyd is such a dumb ass.

 

[Frank Bama]

Well ya, everyone knows that Micheal Boyd and Miles O'Brien are absolute aviation experts.....

The media makes me sick!!!!

 

[jetexas]

That's OK. NBC is not a 'real' TV channel. Reality shows, made for TV movies, etc. blagggh.

 

[Splert]

Is an ACMI company an 'Airline' just because they fly aeroplanes?

Splert

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Well, Boyd is right. Comair as well as ASA, SkyWest, ExpressJet, Eagle, Mesa, Mesaba, Pinnacle, etc, etc, etc are not real "airlines" in the true since of the word. All we do is provide our services (pilots and sometimes airplanes) to network carriers. Now, if we advertised our own brand and sold our own seats then it would be a different story.

Frats,

 

[doh]

What was his point in saying that? Was he just looking for face time? How would understanding that we aren't an airline in the traditional sense change what happened? Or is he just saying blame Delta because they handle all our systems through Delta Technologies (yet another wholly owned subsidiary of BigD Inc.)? WTFO

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

We at Comair have know Boyd is a dumba$$ since the crap he was saying during our strike. I feel bad for the companies that hire him as a consultant.

 

[sleepy]

Well, Boyd is right. Comair as well as ASA, SkyWest, ExpressJet, Eagle, Mesa, Mesaba, Pinnacle, etc, etc, etc are not real "airlines" in the true since of the word. All we do is provide our services (pilots and sometimes airplanes) to network carriers. Now, if we advertised our own brand and sold our own seats then it would be a different story.

Frats,

But they have a 121 operating certificate. The FAA would say that they are an airline. They just rent baggage handling and reservation services from DAL.

 

[bvt1151]

Whether or not an airline has a marketing department has nothing to do with this weeks fiasco's. This is just Boyd trying to get his face on TV and any chance to say I told you so, even if he has to take advantage of the ingorant media. Typical Boyd.

 

[AutoBus]

Whether or not an airline has a marketing department has nothing to do with this weeks fiasco's. This is just Boyd trying to get his face on TV and any chance to say I told you so, even if he has to take advantage of the ingorant media. Typical Boyd.

Comair is NOT an airline, they are a provider of lift to a single customer. Don't kid yourselves, without Delta, Comair could NOT fuction, could not survive on it's own. All RJ operators are a house of cards, built on shakey ground. If Comair only got 100% of the incremental revenue for all the passengers it flys, it would be broke in a few months (look at independence air).

The only way the RJ model works, is the somewhat mistaken belief on the part of the major partners that they can lose a few bucks on each RJ passenger because the will make it up on the mainline portion. However since the early 2000's (due to depressed ticket yields) this model is no longer valid. This is one of the main reasons UAIR will fail .

 

[foofighter145]

Boyd is correct, don't let your ego and dreams get in the way of logic and reality

 

[Palerider957]

Comair is NOT an airline, they are a provider of lift to a single customer. Don't kid yourselves, without Delta, Comair could NOT fuction, could not survive on it's own. All RJ operators are a house of cards, built on shakey ground. If Comair only got 100% of the incremental revenue for all the passengers it flys, it would be broke in a few months (look at independence air).

The only way the RJ model works, is the somewhat mistaken belief on the part of the major partners that they can lose a few bucks on each RJ passenger because the will make it up on the mainline portion. However since the early 2000's (due to depressed ticket yields) this model is no longer valid. This is one of the main reasons UAIR will fail .

Without Delta interference, Comair would A) probably own Aitran
B) probably be flying A320's
C) probably be on the fast track to putting DAL out of business.

I'm not a Comair pilot, but I understand why they have such contempt for DAL. Comair was on the verge of great things when DAL leved the boom.

 

[foofighter145]

Probably, probably, & probably not

 

[AutoBus]

Without Delta interference, Comair would A) probably own Aitran
B) probably be flying A320's
C) probably be on the fast track to putting DAL out of business.

I'm not a Comair pilot, but I understand why they have such contempt for DAL. Comair was on the verge of great things when DAL leved the boom.

Yes it might have been, but that is then and this is now. And now Comair (and virtually all regional "wet lease" operators) are a mere shell of a company. They are artifically subsidized by thier mainline partners.

Seriously, within the next few years most 50 seater RJ's will be parked in the desert. The CASM's are not supported by the RASM's in the big (mainline) picture, although they might appear to make sense at the regional level (because mainline is paying you a fee per departure, greater than what is collected in actual fares).

To Comair's credit, they orginated the "fee per departure" practice for RJ flying in this country. The reason? Simple, they looked at the RJ ecomonics and compared them the the "pro-rate" fare they were getting from thier turboprop flying and saw that the RJ made no sense what-so-ever, but Delta wanted them anyway, so a deal was struck. And Delta agreed to pay a certain fee for each departure based on stage length, etc.. Thus making RJ flying a sure thing, for comair.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on RJ's completely, but the madness of supporting flying that in itself is not profitable cannot continue in this revenue environment.

Even Canadair understood the economics, they never anticipated selling as many RJ's as they did, they where thinking 15 to 20 aircraft sold per year with a mix of airline operators (for select high yield, light traffic routes) and corporate shuttle operators (GM, IBM, Xerox, etc).

Some of the larger RJ's have economics approaching mainline aircraft (on a CASM basis) and might make sense on lightly traveled / off hour higher yield markets, but even then you have to ask yourself, with razor thin profit margins, why would mainline want to fund a 5 to 8% margin at a regional, when it could fly route itself and keep the 5 to 8% margin it's giving away.

Yes you could always come back to the arguement that mainline profits form the incremental feed, even if it loses money on the regional traffic on a strictly CASM/RASM basis, there may have been some truth to that in the 90's, but I doubt that is true today with today's yield and in particular today's fuel prices.

 

[Superkell]

OK you see they are not an airline because all they do is fly arround in a bunch of airplanes to lots of different airports with passengers on them along with their baggage. You see the pilots wear airline pilot uniforms because they are actually Mormans who prefer the dark navy blue to the tradional black uniforms that they usually wear. They are however not to be mistaken with real airline pilots who wear the same uniforms and are airline pilots who fly passengers arround and stuff like that.

Now the question really is if Comair is not an airline then what type of buisness are they? You see this is a very important question because they have this operating certificate that says that they are an airline. Someone should contact the FAA first thing in the morning to let them know that the cerfiticate was issued in error. They are not an airline. So besides airlines what type of buisness flys planes arround and stuff like that? Well mabey they are a flight school. Mabey they are a banner tow service. Mabey they are a shoping mall. Mabey they are a hospital. Mabey they are a resturant. Mabey they are........ just mabey.......THEY ARE AN AIRLINE.

But seriously everyone if someone on TV talks about an ariline then it must be true. Comair; how dare you go arround impersonating an airline. Stop it right now!!!! O woops!!! Sorry that just slipped.

But seriously this could be anyone and I hope you guys get it on track ASAP. Good luck guys.

 

[foofighter145]

OK you see they are not an airline because all they do is fly arround in a bunch of airplanes to lots of different airports with passengers on them along with their baggage. You see the pilots wear airline pilot uniforms because they are actually Mormans who prefer the dark navy blue to the tradional black uniforms that they usually wear. They are however not to be mistaken with real airline pilots who wear the same uniforms and are airline pilots who fly passengers arround and stuff like that.

Now the question really is if Comair is not an airline then what type of buisness are they? You see this is a very important question because they have this operating certificate that says that they are an airline. Someone should contact the FAA first thing in the morning to let them know that the cerfiticate was issued in error. They are not an airline. So besides airlines what type of buisness flys planes arround and stuff like that? Well mabey they are a flight school. Mabey they are a banner tow service. Mabey they are a shoping mall. Mabey they are a hospital. Mabey they are a resturant. Mabey they are........ just mabey.......THEY ARE AN AIRLINE.

But seriously everyone if someone on TV talks about an ariline then it must be true. Comair; how dare you go arround impersonating an airline. Stop it right now!!!! O woops!!! Sorry that just slipped.

But seriously this could be anyone and I hope you guys get it on track ASAP. Good luck guys.

They are an airline in the public/media view...Nothing More

On paper they are a "paper company" - subject to instant liquidation and part of the shell game of this new downwardly spiraling industry called the "airlines".

I am not singling out Comair, ALL regionals are in the same boat, mine included.

You will see a mass exodus to the desert of the 50 seat regional after the first round of "how to turn your major into a z-scale" is over...and then round 2 begins with the purchasing of smaller domestic feed aircraft by the majors and the slow liquidation of these segregated regional partners into a national melting pot of do-it-all fly-it-all airlines

now say it with me, "downsizing, concessions, and the key phrase...race to the bottom..."

..until there is a national regional union ALL under the same pay umbrella, regional airlines will never be true airlines, will always be subject to instant cutoff from the trough from their major supporter, and subject to fierce competition from their peer competitors looking for nothing more than to feed their top end management and jump ship.

Sorry the truth hurts...

 

[bvt1151]

I think you need to do some research into the airline industry before you post such drivvel.

The only orginizational difference between Delta and Comair is that Delta has a marketing department, while Comair does not, at least not one of any significance. Comair used to have an outstanding marketing department, and even sold Comair tickets (not Delta) before Delta bought them, and quickly dismantled it.

Also look at what Comair was doing before Delta bought them. Midwest Exress, TWA, and Spirit were all looked at to be bought by Comair, and the Spirit deal came within one signature of being completed. Markets were created, tickets were sold, and revenues were generated all exclusive of Delta Air Lines. You will find many a Cincinnati citizen who asks about the weekend passes Comair used to sell.

And all of that stopped, not because Comair decided to, but because Delta forced them to. The airline with the best performing stock in the world turned into the overmanaged Delta tool. If anyone needs to be fired for this, its Mr. Butrell and Mr. Boyd. I'd say bring Siebs back in, because Mr. Butrell has proven useless to any assets owned by Delta, and get rid of Boyd because he's proven useless to everybody except the bitter mainline pilots looking for any reason to hate anthing that starts with the letters "R" and "J".

But you knew that, right?

 

[Bart Simpson]

I thought an airline was an industry that actually flies airplanes and carries passengers from A to B.
Last time I checked, 0% completion factor for CornAir in the last few days.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

 

[foofighter145]

Quit living in the past. We're talking about the present, where wholey owned subsidiaries of sold off as IPO'd skeletons of their previous selves. No one said Comair was never an Airline, they just aren't what they used to be.

You just don't strike for 90 days and accept a fledgling - barely setting the standard level of mediocrity, without so much as putting a dent in the mainline partner's side...all that does is fuel the fire for IPO separation industry wide...but what do you expect with an older generation regional, they sold it to the senior guys not going anywhere else anyways..

Now the end result is the MESA-ing of everyone...

But you knew that already...

 

[Nindiri]

Couldn't care less what they call it, as long as they cash my checks.

 

[foofighter145]

I think you need to do some research into the airline industry before you post such drivvel.

I don't have to research, I'm living the nightmare for the past 16 years

 

[AutoBus]

Well mabey they are a flight school. Mabey they are a banner tow service. Mabey they are a shoping mall. Mabey they are a hospital. Mabey they are a resturant. Mabey they are........ just mabey.......THEY ARE AN AIRLINE.

But seriously this could be anyone and I hope you guys get it on track ASAP. Good luck guys.

They are not an Airline. Airlines have a corporate identity be it good, bad or indifferent. If Delta decided to replace all comair flights with say, MESA the flying public would not notice the difference. Just a switch to another low bidder, just like changing peanut or ticket jacket printing vendors.

Comair WAS an Airline 25 years ago when they were flying Navajo's.

 

[BoilerUP]

Saw Boyd on CSPAN the other day. He was talking about the different aircraft fleet types in use around the world. Didn't know much of a difference between the CR2/7/9 and the EMB-135/140/145 and 170 families. Definately didn't give them any sort of credit or props. Then again, he didn't seem to know much about any of the fleets his was talking about, either.

Lets see, FAA ranks airlines, and Comair is ranked. Comair has an operating certificate, DO, Chief Pilot, training department, dispatch, maintenance control, and their own employees. FSDO has a whole slew of employees dedicated to Comair, and they own/operate/whatever the C concourse at CVG.

If it walks like an airline, and talks like an airline...

 

[foofighter145]

Some of you are missing the point...

It is a smoke and mirrors game in the industry and some of you guys are falling for it as much as the flying public.

Looking like an airline is part of the game...that's how they blur the payscale lines and everyone still thinks you're overpaid even though you're living on Kraft Easy Mac with 3 kids

It's like raising kids, you can tell them a million times they're gonna burn themselves on the stove but until they touch the pot that's too hot...

Guess you'll have to find out the hard way

 

[AutoBus]

Some of you are missing the point...

It is a smoke and mirrors game in the industry and some of you guys are falling for it as much as the flying public.

Looking like an airline is part of the game...that's how they blur the payscale lines and everyone still thinks you're overpaid even though you're living on Kraft Easy Mac with 3 kids

It's like raising kids, you can tell them a million times they're gonna burn themselves on the stove but until they touch the pot that's too hot...

Guess you'll have to find out the hard way

It's funny, the guys with the skinny logbooks WISH/THINK/DREAM it's one way, the guys with the fat logbooks KNOW it's the other way.

 

[front9]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah....not An Airline!!!!!!....aaaaahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha... Hey Wait A Min...

 

[foofighter145]

It's funny, the guys with the skinny logbooks WISH/THINK/DREAM it's one way, the guys with the fat logbooks KNOW it's the other way.

Exactly what I was thinking...I had an epiphony some years back and after I stopped living in the dream world I HOPED the airline I worked for could be and started living in the REALITY of the situation I was in...life got a whole lot better. Not from a company improvement point but from an awareness -live in the now type awareness.

Makes the BS a lot easier to wade through, even though it's still BS

 

[bvt1151]

It's funny, the guys with the skinny logbooks WISH/THINK/DREAM it's one way, the guys with the fat logbooks KNOW it's the other way.

What exactly are you arguing, Auto? Regional airlines aren't real airlines, or regional airline pilots aren't real airline pilots?

Sounds like a fat logbook tends to lead to a head with the same size.

 

[bvt1151]

I don't have to research, I'm living the nightmare for the past 16 years

Because 16 years in the industry teaches pilots all they need to know about running airlines.

At least you sound like a pilot.