NBAA SMS Class

[Fblowjets]

So if your international flying consist of Canada a few times a year and the Bahamas a few times a year, do we have to comply by end of year? I cannot get find a straight answer. This program is designed to bleed more money out of flight departments.

 

[G4G5]

Canada has come out and said that they will not enforce an sms on foreign registered aircraft. Not sure about the Bahamas

 

[jet2work]

Another thing to watch out for during the auditing process is hiring an auditor that also (conveniently enough) runs an aircraft management business. At some point they will end up face to face with your Boss' Boss or your CEO to report their findings. That's when you run the risk of them telling the boss how they could do it more cost effectively by combining your aircraft on their insurance, negotiating fuel purchases, making the crews independent contractors, and putting the aircraft on their 135 for some charter revenue. We all know that it's BS, but where do you think these "consultants" come from?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Another thing to watch out for during the auditing process is hiring an auditor that also (conveniently enough) runs an aircraft management business. At some point they will end up face to face with your Boss' Boss or your CEO to report their findings. That's when you run the risk of them telling the boss how they could do it more cost effectively by combining your aircraft on their insurance, negotiating fuel purchases, making the crews independent contractors, and putting the aircraft on their 135 for some charter revenue. We all know that it's BS, but where do you think these "consultants" come from?

agree 100%.

"auditors" and "consultants".....often industry flunkies with NO interest in your well being.

If I get one more phone call from some scumbag 135 outfit who will "manage" our aircraft for free I might lose it!!

 

[bbwest]

Well gentlemen, not sure what type of operation you work for but my bet is that if you dont have a functional safety program (SMS), you need it more than you know. Ask the folks at NASCAR if they wish they'd have had one sooner.

 

[yfly]

Well gentlemen, not sure what type of operation you work for but my bet is that if you dont have a functional safety program (SMS), you need it more than you know. Ask the folks at NASCAR if they wish they'd have had one sooner.

Don't confuse having a Safety Management System with using a Safety Management System. Having one doesn't make anyone safer and I think requiring a system where a system is not wanted won't make operations any safer.

There were plenty of FARs and industry accepted procedures and guidelines already in existence that would have prevented the NASCAR accident, if only they were followed. I don't think a fancy manual would have prevented the decision making process in motion before this accident. My humble opinion.

I just wish I was smart enough to invent a "standard" ie. IS-BAO that I could charge people a hefty fee to implement.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well gentlemen, not sure what type of operation you work for but my bet is that if you dont have a functional safety program (SMS), you need it more than you know. Ask the folks at NASCAR if they wish they'd have had one sooner.

Ah yes....an SMS would have prevented this, huh?

As stated above, how about following FARs and standard industry practices? How about running a department run by SOPs that are accepted/expected right up to the top.

Many have been doing this long before SMS, some never have and never will - SMS or not.

Do a handful of wannabe manager pilots spending 6 months and thousands of dollars putting together some ISBAO manuals make you feel safe? We will all play the game, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking an SMS will do anything for the average small flight department.

At the end of the day It's the quality, well paid people you have making the decisions in the cockpit and who are backed by managers with spines that make an operation run safe, not a fancy certificate on the wall that gets prepped by some "consultant" and dusted off by some office clown.

 

[AeroDork]

...who are backed by managers with spines....

Which is exactly what this industry is desperately short of and why we're at this point now. Because a bunch of ninnies have been promoted to chief pilot and don't want to risk anything by "rocking the boat" by ever saying no to the big guy.

Someone said the Tim Horton's global express accident in Canada would not have happened if they had a SMS in place. Really? They needed a matrix to tell them that ducking below the papi and landing a global on a 4800' contaminated runway was a bad idea?

 

[BoilerUP]

They needed a matrix to tell them that ducking below the papi and landing a global on a 4800' contaminated runway was a bad idea?

What, you don't think a multi-page pre-departure safety evaluation, completed prior to every leg, would increase safety of flight?

 

[bbwest]

I say again, ask the NASCAR guys if having an operable SMS would have prevented the mishap.

We are a society of rules and procedures. Corporate Aviation is the last bastion of aviation with few of those. It's always interesting to fly w the folks who think they dont need them. I submit again, they are the very ones who need them the most.

As SMS is not foolproof. It still doesnt take the human out of the equation. It provides the human rules and guidelines under which to operate. It provides humans with a means of identifying problems and correcting issues so that the next human doesnt have to relive the same risk.

All 121 operations have safety programs. All 135 operators have safety programs. As 91 operators we have no dispatchers, no company weather folks, most often on our own. But we are better than all of those guys? We don't need what they need?

I say again, it's exactly the folks who think they are above the SMS, who think it's crap, who need it the most.