Nationwide Walkout!!!!

[TinGoose1]

National already has the authority to turn down whipsaw contracts. What national lacks is a leader who has the brass to actually do it.

 

[Nindiri]

Look, guy, I don't all day to sit here and say the same thing over and over. What happened at American was one union. That is why the judge imposed the fine. I-am-not-talking-about-a-union-action. . . . . clear enough? I'm talking about pilots-in-general.

You may be talking about pilots-in-general, but the judges don't care. They have made it clear that they will hold ALPA and any other union accountable for any mass pilot actions regardless of the unions' lack of involvement. They would be perfectly happy to cripple every pilot groups union and the public would be glad after the hassle of a one day walkout. The massage from the courts is clear: keep your pilots in line or we'll do it for you.

Sure, thousands of individual pilots can walk off the job independently of each other without fear of individual consequences, but collectively, what's the point of it if it results in their union being destroyed and the court imposing it's own rules. ALPA and the Comair MEC had nothing to do with the Comair pilot's mass maintenance write-up day, but the court was not impressed and it ended up doing more harm than good.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

I nominiate TY Web to organize a nation wide walkout. O.k. smartass, here's your chance to shine, or are you just acting like a tough know it all as usual? Why don't you and your pilot group lead the way.

 

[MedFlyer]

How many months I was here before upgrade?

Am I to imply that you took low pay for the quick upgrade?

Did anyone say that the stated goal was to garner symapthy? It's to make a statement . . . to show some strength, to direct the spotlight on the fact that pilots are standing firm, and will not be flying 767's for LCC 717 pay.

First, you use QOL, commute, upgrade time to justify your low pay. But what if the DL pilots are "happy" to fly the 767 for 717 pay, because flying the 767 gives them the QOL, commute, upgrade time that they want?

Why can't the DL (or NW) pilots behave the same way as you?

If you're happy with your compensation at Airtran that's great. But why do you hold other airlines to a higher standard? Why can't they make the same choices as you?

If you negotiate it, they will have to raise fares.

Since when are airline fares based on employee wages? Fares are based on what consumers are willing to pay. If your costs go up and consumers won't pay, you simply will go out of business (or flounder around in BK for years). You can't dictate what consumers will pay, anymore than the guy at Burger King can dictate how much you pay for your Whopper.

I came into this job with my eyes open, and I never stopped developing business interests on the outside.

You're not the only one. Like everyone else, I have my limits and can easily move on to other careers and interests.

 

[Juvat]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.

Now that the ALPA Golden Boys are in deep $h!t, you want everyone to sit up and take notice. Sorry, that train pulled out of the station in 1983 and kept picking up speed until ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back in 2001.

Let me refresh your memory:

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo stole the CAL pensions.

No nationwide walkout when random drug testing was implemented.

No nationwide walkout when pilots were forced to go through security screening with the pax.

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind prior to shutting them down.

No nationwide walkout when the Delta pilots screwed the PanAm pilots.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier Reno got stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

No nationwide walkout when Emery pilots got hosed.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier TWA was advised to abandon its SCOPE clause by ALPA attorneys then the majority of its pilots were stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

Too little, too late dog...TC

Fuggin' A bubbah. Well said

 

[klhoard]

It was an obscure Animal House reference...

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Obsure my A$$. . . . any pilot who can fly an ILS better be fluent in all of the Classics. . . .
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Animal House. . .
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Quest for the Holy Grail. . .
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Life of Brian. . .
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The Jerk . . . .
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Office Space. . .
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[Mr Hat]

National already has the authority to turn down whipsaw contracts. What national lacks is a leader who has the brass to actually do it.

Thats exactly my point. National has to sign off on all contracts after they are voted in, why bother? Nobody ever disputes it. I understand local autonomy but when local autonomy is causing pilot groups to get into bidding wars over flying then it needs to be stopped. This is one of the reasons ALPA was formed in the first place, to stop all the under cutting that was going on in the air mail days. We have come full circle.
As for equipment minimum pay rates, do you think the managements of this industry have set min and max pay rates? You bet they have, so why doesn't ALPA national. Until they take a leadership role, this will continue until the economy gets better in 10 years. Who knows how badly things will have degraded by then.

 

[pilotyip]

If we had a national seniority list based on your original ATP issuance, seniority won't be an issue.

Sort of like the Merchant Marines.

Does anyone know what has happened to the US Merchant Marine because of their works rules, there is less than a 100 ships flying the American flag in int'l commerce. And this world's largest importing country. That is probably not a good example.

 

[Redmeat]

I think you better go back and watch the movie or read a book...Germans???

Geez!

He was referring to a quote from the movie Animal House dumba$$.

"Geez!"

For CS.

 

[busdrvr62]

Forget the national senority list...... Have an alpa national pay scale that would determine what the pay for each type of ac and seat. This way mgmt can't play us off each other.

 

[HalinTexas]

If we had a national seniority list based on your original ATP issuance, seniority won't be an issue.

Sort of like the Merchant Marines.

Does anyone know what has happened to the US Merchant Marine because of their works rules, there is less than a 100 ships flying the American flag in int'l commerce. And this world's largest importing country. That is probably not a good example.

Many of those ships are flagged in Panama, mostly due to taxation in the US and those gulf states, and the lack of it overseas, not labor. Plenty of US crews working those same ships. Most ports require some local crews to pilot or escort by tug Int'l ships into harbor.

However, your point is only valid in Int'l waters. There was an article in USA Today about some captains, whose only job is to pilot ships from Port of New Orleans up to Baton Rouge. They make $300K/yr. Their "crashpad/crewroom," I think it was called "pilot's island" was wiped out by Katrina.

Scope language can/will/does protect those pilot groups from such actions by managment. We still have cabotage laws in this country. If for some reason those are amended, then there no protection for anyone regardless of how seniority is determined.

My point is that the existing system is flawed. Unions are only effective when times are good and the Co. is making money, and they have no alternative but to negotiate with the union. The unions' purpose is to exist, even if their membership suffers. In BK the only entity that's protected is the creditors. Managment, thru 1113(c) filings, gets whatever they want from labor, and both sides know it. By creating some sort of national seniority list this takes the fear of starting over out of consideration when crewmembers are voting their futures away. A national seniority list also takes a lot of power away from unions and union leadership knows this. They want labor beholden to them. It's a similar reason why we'll never see a flat tax in this country. Too many IRS employees, accounts, lawyers, and their staffs would be out of work.

 

[FN FAL]

It was an obscure Animal House reference...

The fact that you had to explain that was freaking hilarious. :nuts:

 

[Skyline]

Forget the senority Lists

Hey Bro's ,

Lets forget the national seniority lists and all the other disputes and sell all jobs on Ebay. What do you think? A Delta 777 Captain job could get maybe 180K I'll bet. An Alaska MD80 FO seat would fetch perhaps 38K.

The company would have to offer a cash insentive for any Mesa jobs however.

Skyline

 

[FN FAL]

FN FAL can't. He flies a Caravan for a FedEx feeder which means he's non-union.

He won't be falling on any swords anytime soon.

HMM

You got that right, we're lower than whale poop in a wagon rut.

But to answer TWA's comment about being the leader, I'm not in that position. This is not the place or the time for me to discuss the union organization attempt at the feeders and the aftermath, but they tried...I heard the story directly from those who were there when it happened. Down by us, we'd be lucky if we could get represented by the Amalgamated Condiment Packaging and Sheep Hearders Association...and we'd still suffer re-organization and back biting, even in good times.

I do have to say that empathize with your plight at mainline, because without successful negotiating and a profitable business climate, my (and many others) glass ceiling gets foggier and foggier every day. I know in the past I might have taken a jab or two in jest or in frustration after having a few drinks, but I do understand that pilots, mechanics, rampies and customer service people are taking it up the bung with what is going on in the industry today and I have many friends who are living this suffering today. Good luck to you all!

 

[Ty Webb]

Am I to imply that you took low pay for the quick upgrade?

If you want to define what other people are being paid, you need to have the stones to say who you work for. If you really have 1200tt, like your profile says, then you don;t work for anyone. If you want to have any credibility, you need to answer the question.

My pay is just fine, and my job is just fine. I'm not worried about me. I am worried about this industry.

As for taking AirTran pay . . . I had less than 3000tt when I hired on here, chump. I made Captain three years after that. It turned out to be a very smart move for me. I wouldn;t change anything. As for you . . . . you work for who, again? What's that? I couldn't hear you. Maybe if you pull your head out of your @ss we could hear you when you tell us what sort of an airline employs such a stellar aviator as yourself, but I doubt it.

First, you use QOL, commute, upgrade time to justify your low pay. But what if the DL pilots are "happy" to fly the 767 for 717 pay, because flying the 767 gives them the QOL, commute, upgrade time that they want?

I don't have "low pay", chump. Again, you work for who? Let's hear it.

If you're happy with your compensation at Airtran that's great. But why do you hold other airlines to a higher standard? Why can't they make the same choices as you?

Hmmm. . . . questioning flying 767 internationally for 717 pay . . . is that "holding to a higher standard"? I don't think so. And you work for who, again?

Since when are airline fares based on employee wages?

Ahh, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. Fares aren;t based on wages . . . . and wages aren;t based on fares. Sorry, buddy, but your Burger King job doesn;t compare, it's not a union job for skilled labor. Better find another analogy- one that actually makes sense. And you work for who, again?

You're not the only one. Like everyone else, I have my limits and can easily move on to other careers and interests.

Move from what? The fry station to the soda fountain?