Nationwide Walkout!!!!

[xjjetdog]

Being disgusted as to what management is doing to labor unions nationwide, I have a proposal. ALPA should organize a nationwide walkout for 1 day. It's kind of like giving management a taste of their own medicine. Something has to be done to convey the message to management the 'race to the bottom' has to stop.

 

[AA717driver]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.

Now that the ALPA Golden Boys are in deep $h!t, you want everyone to sit up and take notice. Sorry, that train pulled out of the station in 1983 and kept picking up speed until ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back in 2001.

Let me refresh your memory:

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo stole the CAL pensions.

No nationwide walkout when random drug testing was implemented.

No nationwide walkout when pilots were forced to go through security screening with the pax.

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind prior to shutting them down.

No nationwide walkout when the Delta pilots screwed the PanAm pilots.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier Reno got stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

No nationwide walkout when Emery pilots got hosed.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier TWA was advised to abandon its SCOPE clause by ALPA attorneys then the majority of its pilots were stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

Too little, too late dog...TC

 

[Ty Webb]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.

AA717, I am happy that things "worked out" for you since your furlough. You obviously got a job that you enjoy, that's great. If my airline gig went away tomorrow, as a former 91/135 guy, I would do the same.

Having said that, though, I think as someone who is now "on the outside looking in" you may not appreciate the gravity of what is happening with DAL and NWA (and possibly AMR) filing Chapt. 11 and trying to de-nut their pilot groups.

Under current proposals, DAL and NWA are looking at flying 767's for AirTran 717 pay, and with lesser rigs and benefits . . . . and the AAL 757 pay is already at AirTran 737-800 scales. These latest developments may actually be the last straw . . . or not, but maybe this is one for you to sit out, and let those who "have a dog in this fight" decide what to do.

 

[Lead Sled]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.

Now that the ALPA Golden Boys are in deep $h!t, you want everyone to sit up and take notice. Sorry, that train pulled out of the station in 1983 and kept picking up speed until ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back in 2001.

Let me refresh your memory:

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo stole the CAL pensions.

No nationwide walkout when random drug testing was implemented.

No nationwide walkout when pilots were forced to go through security screening with the pax.

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind prior to shutting them down.

No nationwide walkout when the Delta pilots screwed the PanAm pilots.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier Reno got stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

No nationwide walkout when Emery pilots got hosed.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier TWA was advised to abandon its SCOPE clause by ALPA attorneys then the majority of its pilots were stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

Too little, too late dog...TC

AA717Driver...
Hey you forgot to mention when the United guys screwed the old Frontier folks.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

xjjet,

Its funny, but last week, I was thinking the same thing. Im disgusted by what has happened to our industry. The Airline Pilot industry, and I think if any of us expect to have a career that earns more than 90 grand a year, something better get done quick.

Im concerned for our careers, our profession, our industry of airline pilots. I cant believe there are pilots out there that are so self serving and vengeful that they would rather the ship go down than take an action to fix it...

AA717, its guys like you that screw this industry up, your a *&%$ing looser....

 

[climbhappy]

that idea is one that looks good on paper...isn't the real issue or fact that ALPA has no cards left to play?

How could any logic be conveyed with a walkout to MGT who would shrug and say" i don't know what those poor bastards are doing," There are several legacy carriers in bankruptsy!"

So, what to do? i think the over capacity in the regionals will actually bring a few of them to BK and when that area is reduced then higher mainline jobs with better salaries become more abundant and the chance to really get there is increased.

Aren't you really asking, "how dow we make more money? It can't be a reality in a fifty seater. Delta has proven that.

 

[HalinTexas]

If we had a national seniority list based on your original ATP issuance, seniority won't be an issue.

Sort of like the Merchant Marines.

Nah, that's too easy, and ALPO will lose all its power.

 

[labbats]

If we had a national seniority list based on your original ATP issuance, seniority won't be an issue.

Sort of like the Merchant Marines.

Nah, that's too easy, and ALPO will lose all its power.

I hear national seniority list thrown around a lot, like it's the answer. I used to think so for a while too. But consider this... if you're at Northwest or Delta, and you get furloughed, even with a national seniority list, what's to stop another carrier from hiring someone junior to you? What's to stop them from avoiding hiring 20 year captains and using 5 year captains instead? You're in the street either way.

 

[Deli Guy]

Did we just sit around when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?...........................................

 

[RJones]

Funny, my father (UAL retired) proposed this idea back in the early seventies.

 

[HalinTexas]

Makes it easier to leave by choice, and not have to take a big hit.

I'm about to start my 8th year at ATA. Can't match that pay in the first year anywhere, but FEDEX and SWA get me back to it quicker.

If there is a requirment to have an ATP before you get hired at any 121 carrier, that could help dwindle the applicant pool.

I would imagine there would be very few 20 year captains willingly leave any given airline, so I doubt that would ever be an issue. At any rate, let them. They still pay them based on their national seniority. The point is to keep your pay rate, longevity, and relative seniority to everyone else, if you are qualified. This way a qualified B737 Captain, or whatever, can leave airline A for airline B Captain position and keep their pay rate.

Work rules, retirement, per diem could vary from airline to airline, but pay rates for a given make and model remain unchanged.

 

[HalinTexas]

The idea was initially proposed back in the '30's I believe and neither managment nor labor liked it.

Model it after the merchant marines. It won't work exactly, but modify it until it does.

 

[TWA Dude]

AA717, its guys like you that screw this industry up, your a *&%$ing looser....

What's that old expression about judging others lest ye be judged? AA717Driver has been in this business a lot longer than you or I and since I've flown with him I can vouch for the fact that he is not at all self-serving in his evaluation; he just sees things more clearly than you do.

A national walk-out day? Great idea; that'll show 'em.
-- It's illegal. Expect consequences from the courts.
-- If you haven't noticed our government is anti-union. Expect consequences. (think about what Senator McCain says)
-- The public isn't sympathetic. Times are tough for many sectors of the economy.

In other words, a national walk-out would not have the desired effect. Management is beating the unions today because it's losing so much money. ALPA is effed-up and needs a real leader but even that wouldn't be enough to cure our ills.

 

[~~~^~~~]

xjjet,

Im concerned for our careers, our profession, our industry of airline pilots. I cant believe there are pilots out there that are so self serving and vengeful that they would rather the ship go down than take an action to fix it...

AA717, its guys like you that screw this industry up, your a *&%$ing looser....

Apparently you have not been watching ALPA since it was hijacked by the Delta MEC for the last 30 years. I've only had a front row seat for 6 years. During that time they have blocked one list, blocked anyone's attempts to negotiate with mother Delta to secure scope. Lowered the scope limit from 105 to 70 seats, stormed out of negotiations which would have kept their junior guys from getting furloughed, traded away furlough protection, allowed super senior buddies to come back after they retired (keeping the furloughs on the street) and got ALPA involved in litigation it can not win and really can not even afford, and perhaps even planted the seeds by which ALPA will split in two (again) during the next 24 months.

AA717 is calling it like it is. A Nationwide walk out would not be in the interests of the 757/767 Captains who picked up a greenslip trip on that day. Further, Duane Woerth could get in trouble and he does not want to be the next multi millionaire in jail. I don't even know if he could actively trade his shares of ULICO in jail, could he?

ALPA has completely forgot that the purpose of a union is to bring pilots together to bargain collectively. Until the union returns to its core beliefs it will continue the slide towards a self interested club of Boeing widebody Captains who get drunk on our dues money. In the mean time management will continue to enjoy the lack of leadership in our National Union.

 

[Ty Webb]

AA717Driver has been in this business a lot longer than you or I and since I've flown with him I can vouch for the fact that he is not at all self-serving in his evaluation; he just sees things more clearly than you do.

That's not "more clearly" . . . it's just "more pessimistically".

A national walk-out day? Great idea; that'll show 'em.
-- It's illegal. Expect consequences from the courts.
-- If you haven't noticed our government is anti-union. Expect consequences. (think about what Senator McCain says)
-- The public isn't sympathetic. Times are tough for many sectors of the economy.

That's right. . . . much better to just sit there like a pig in a puddle of s#!t and watch your life go by.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[BoilerUP]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

While that's true, you must propose solutions that have a reasonable chance to be successful. Proposing an SOS as a solution to current problems is ludicrous not only because of the examples listed above, but because of those problem's underlying cause - LACK OF UNITY.

 

[Skyline]

Unity

How can you ever have unity when you got such a wide spread in pilot incomes? Try telling an 18K FO to sacrifice so a UPS 747 Captain can keep his fat pay check. Most of us know that we will never make it to a major so where is the benefit to us? My only hope is to become a scab for a good company someday. Perhaps if we leveled the playing field pilots industry wide would feel more compelled to support a national effort. Until then it is every man for themselves.

Skyline

 

[100LL... Again!]

The pilot group nationwide is too diverse in terms of pay and 'career expectations' to hope for any unity. Good luck getting the guys at the top to sacrifice anything for the CHANCE that there will be a long-term improvement

Here's an idea!!! Let's decimate the ranks! Let's throw everyone born on even-numbered days out of the profession. Now we will have a eral pilot shortage and we can finally start demanding "what we deserve" (hahahaha!).

 

[dbrownie]

My only hope is to become a scab for a good company someday.
Skyline

Your only hope??!!!
Here is a clue since you don't have one.

If you have to be a scab it is not a good company!!

I feel sorry for you.

Dave B

 

[100LL... Again!]

Skyline summed it up far better than I.

You can't get ryalty to take a hit for the peasants, and you'll only get the peasants to take a hit for royalty at gunpoint.