National Seniority Protocol

[PCL_128]

Considering that this is solely an ALPA initiative you can expect anyone that isn't ALPA to not be considered. That being the case I'm sure ALPA would sign up anyone that was interested joining the collective instead of risking it alone out in an independent union or non-union shop. Support from anyone outside ALPA is irrelevant to make this happen.

I agree, but you need to be careful about how you set this up to make sure that it doesn't kill further organizing efforts. The UAL resolution included "seniority benchmarks" that would credit non-ALPA and non-union pilots on the national list. If this isn't done, then you'll never organize another non-ALPA group again. Non-ALPA pilots can't be concerned about losing their seniority if they join ALPA. A universal standard needs to be set that would place non-ALPA pilots in the proper place on the list if they decide to join ALPA. You can't just staple them if they join after the list is implemented.

 

[xjhawk]

The talk continues about a National Seniority list. I have given it a lot of thought. A way, not the only way to get this started is to establish a National List for ALPA date of hire, starting with your first ALPA membership. What would this list do for you?

First, you would retain your seniority at your company and your company would retain the rights of hire. You would not lose your position/pay quality of life at your current position because a very senior person at a different airline was hired after you at your company but had a higher National number.

Your national number would first cover such things as:

vacation accural and usage (transfered from one airline to another.

Sick time/personal time, same concept as vacation

And I think the most important, your retirement. ALPA would take the best systems out there, accounting for match percentages and wage rates to transfere your retirement with you to your new job if you should move jobs.

The benefits would be something that all pilots could take advantage of.

 

[Poahi]

The talk continues about a National Seniority list.

That's an understatement. Mesa's got a new approach I've never seen before: Selling seniority.

Mesa is now offering their qualified pilots the option of flying for KunPeng (an airline they are divesting themselves of), under different conditions than those employed directly by KunPeng now or in the future. In exchange for a pay differential, you can keep your seniority and longevity at Mesa and return under cryptic terms after 2 years. The pay differential works out to about $80,000 over the 2 year period.

 

[CEO silly sap]

If you guys could pull this off and the airlines somehow signed off on it, it would be great for America. You will basically have turned all your airlines into one massive airline that will be much easier for new up and coming airlines to compete with. Real competition will come in and hopefully wipe out all of the old dinosaurs that are sitting around. Southwest will probably become a national since it won't have to put up with your labor BS that you will be putting on your airlines. I will definitely try to invest in a new airline since you guys will have tied the hands of your airlines so much that it will be easy to undercut them.

Sadly, the airlines would never accept such lunacy as their labor telling them who they have to hire. But, it would be nice to see some real change in the industry.

Not since the UAW have I seen a group of people so intent on organizing themselves out of jobs. But, I'm sure it's just the evil management in Detroit that is forcing Americans to not buy their cars just to screw the auto workers just like the evil management in the airlines is trying to screw all of its pilots every day.

I remember the UAW signing off on the bonus for managment. I also recall the UAW sitting in on the auto makers business planning sessions. But the biggest error the UAW did was setting the price for the autos. It was so sad to see labor think they could run a business, it should be left up to those with college degrees and mba/s. Maybe someday soon these Unions will know that they need to stick with wrench turning and seat placement. Stay out of the boardroom and away from the budgeting and spreadsheet modifications.

 

[CEO silly sap]

If I could make a small suggestion;

If you are an alpa pilot, then contact your rep and find out how to get this ball moving. Ask them questions, because posting here wont do anything but waste time on this issue.

One last thing, what if alpa did all the training and supplied pilots to the airlines?

 

[LearLove]

bring it on!!

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

 

[acpilot]

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

What about the other secotrs of aviation? 91, 135, and 137 for example. Aren't you guys looking for an all inculsive list that will help ALL pilots?

Why not from your first PIC type (or type waiver)?

 

[superfreight208]

This needs to be implemented!!

 

[FRACTRASH]

lllklllkkkoll

 

[lookin4better]

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

sounds good enough... start at Eagle, work 6 months and go fly 135 or 91... seems fair...after all this is about helping ALL pilots right?

You sure cant think 121 is some " club " when its the easiest flying job out there to get with the least amount of experience needed ( regional level ) ... no way you could give more credit to a pilot at Mesa/RAH/Skywest over a pilot with 5 types flying charter/corporate ( a pilot is a pilot ) .... just a thought..

Bring on the list...

 

[OHGOON]

Great idea and 50 yrs overdue. The only fair way is to make the DOH the day you earned your ATP. It would make that license finally mean something again and it would motivate all to obtain it as fast as possible whether you are military or civilian.

Now the reality check.

Pilots are usually only for something that helps them personally and against everything else that might move things forward for the whole profession. Waiting for that to change......well, hell may freeze over first!

Hope I'm wrong, but not holding my breath!

 

[belchfire]

It mentions air carrier...that would include 135. Heck, I don't know-that would give me a seniority date in '98...2000 if they go 121 carrier, 2004 I think is when we voted the teamsters in.

Now if they get their noses in the air and don't recognize 135 operations as Air Carriers per the FAR's they will have a tough time selling it.

It's not a bad idea overall. There are so many variables that would screw people though I can't see it happening. For instance if they picked "date of first turbojet type rating" some kids that got a free type in a bizjet of some sort at a young age would clobber me-even though my first jet type rating was in a 744 and I had been type rated in a turboprop years before.

And my years as an A&P while I built time for ratings and earned a degree would count for nothing...

It's a good idea and to be sure to the detriment of management's corruption (at all air carriers) it should be pursued.

I just don't see how it could be done equitably and without discrimination. Further I just survived a furlough. Guys that got hired after me are pretty much gone...but had this been in place some of those guys would be replacing me and I would be on the street because of their years at brand X.

Guys that got their first 121 job later in life could really be screwed by a kid with SJS...

 

[saabservant]

ALPA is a labor union representing part 121 carriers which have union contracts. I don't follow how it could grant seniority to 135 pilots at non-union carriers.
The underlying premise behind the resolution is to place all alpa pilots under one list, which counters whipsawing and outsourcing, and provides job protection to dues-paying, union members.
If 135 guys want to start paying dues to alpa in order to be included on the list, even though they have no union representation on property, ok, but why would they do that?
I would be more convinced if the 135 pilots started organizing now. We all know that won't happen.....

 

[livin'thesim]

What about someone who gets an ATP in a weekend course? I know just such an individual, although how he passed is beyond me. He then dropped out of flying for some time before getting back into it. Should all those years count for him?

For my money, total time at a union 121 carriers makes the most sense.

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

iiiiii