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National Seniority Protocol

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It's a matter of career expectations, Joey. No matter how long you work at ASA, you'll never fly a 767 and make $200k per year. The NSL shouldn't provide you with an opportunity to bump the 13 year senior DAL FO from bidding to that 767 slot, because he did have expectations for that slot and income. I'm sorry Joey, but your regional years simply aren't worth as much in terms of career earnings. It's just a simple fact that a 20 year ASA career is worth far less than a 20 year Delta career. You want a windfall (again), and that's just unacceptable.

1. Career expectations are in the eye of the beholder....Career expectations makes for messy integrations....NWA/Republic, AA/TWA, AAA/AWA, and probably DAL/NWA.....Too subjective.....

When I hired on at ASA my career expectations at ASA were never to fly a jet....looks like that is going to change....

2. There are ASA pilots making $130K a year....many Delta pilots don't make that....We can go down a W2 merger policy if you want.....Shall we do that?

3. You said "The NSL shouldn't provide you with an opportunity to bump the 13 year senior DAL FO from bidding to that 767 slot, because he did have expectations for that slot and income."

The NSL shouldn't provide a 7 year DAL FO the opportunity to bump a 9 year ASA Captain....Did the 7 year DAL FO have the expectation to be an ASA captain? After all we are talking expectations....correct? Did any mainline pilot ever expect to bump a regional pilot back and become an RJ captain again? Expectations?


4. You said "I'm sorry Joey, but your regional years simply aren't worth as much in terms of career earnings."

Career earnings now.....OK should a UAL pilot be on the same footing as a FDX pilot....After all a FDX pilot has higher career earnings potential....How about a UAL pilot vs. a DAL pilot....Who has the higher career earnings? Slippery slope and subject to change....

Are ASA/CMR/PDT years worth more than Gulfstream years? Are DAL years worth more than Airtran years? Hmmm.....

5. You said "It's just a simple fact that a 20 year ASA career is worth far less than a 20 year Delta career"

The way things are currently going.....A 20 year ASA career may very well be worth more than a United 20 year career.....An ASA 20 year career is currently worth more than a 20 year USAirways career.....Using your logic, a 20 year ASA pilot can go ahead of a 20 year USAirways pilot.....I don't think that is right....but that is your logic...

6. You said "You want a windfall (again), and that's just unacceptable."

You are the one advocating a windfall for mainline pilots......Where does a 20 year USAirways FO making less than a 20 year ASA Capt. go in your pecking order?
 
That is ridiculous.

Why? The 18-year NWA pilot has been making more money than a PCL Captain for most of his career. Now he's expected to get bumped under the PCL pilot if his company goes under? That defeats the purpose of an NSL. Someone that has made the decision to be a Pinnacle lifer does so with the knowledge that they will never make more than about $105k per year (under the current agreement), even as a checkairman. But you would expect a 20-year UAL Captain to have to bid under a 21-year PCL Captain if UAL goes tits up? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Why? The 18-year NWA pilot has been making more money than a PCL Captain for most of his career. Now he's expected to get bumped under the PCL pilot if his company goes under? That defeats the purpose of an NSL. Someone that has made the decision to be a Pinnacle lifer does so with the knowledge that they will never make more than about $105k per year (under the current agreement), even as a checkairman. But you would expect a 20-year UAL Captain to have to bid under a 21-year PCL Captain if UAL goes tits up? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me.


So your advocating a W2 type merger? We can go that way if you want......
 
So your advocating a W2 type merger? We can go that way if you want......

Not really. There are problems with that also. As I said, I would support a ratio that slightly reduces credit for regional years. If the 0.75 for 1 method was used, for example, then that would still leave you with 10 years of portable seniority. Not bad, and a hell of a lot better than nothing. I know it bruises your ego, Joey, but you know it would be in your best interest to have such a system in place.
 
Not really. There are problems with that also. As I said, I would support a ratio that slightly reduces credit for regional years. If the 0.75 for 1 method was used, for example, then that would still leave you with 10 years of portable seniority. Not bad, and a hell of a lot better than nothing. I know it bruises your ego, Joey, but you know it would be in your best interest to have such a system in place.

Sorry....I say no system then....Let's just go our separate ways.......Works for me.....

Why .75 for 1? How about the 20 year USairways FO? Is he the same as a FDX pilot? How about an Air Tran vs. Delta pilot? Who defines "career expectations"? 10 years doesn't get me very far with the USAirways/AWA pilots......nor the United pilots....I say let them apply at the bottom if we can't go 1 for 1......The ALPA Apartheid needs to stop.....
 
Sorry....I say no system then....Let's just go our separate ways.......Works for me.....

I would wager that a majority of the pilots at your carrier would disagree. But of course, it's always just about Joey. :rolleyes:
 
I would wager that a majority of the pilots at your carrier would disagree. But of course, it's always just about Joey. :rolleyes:

20-30% of all regionals are "lifers".....They control the union at the local level......50% don't care and don't participate at all....they just want PIC time so they can become a real pilot.....That leaves about 20-30% of regional pilots that think like you....

You will need to get the "lifers" on board at the regional level if you want this plan to go forward.....The choice is there.....The "lifers" are ready to go either way.....either together or separate.....
 
20-30% of all regionals are "lifers".....They control the union at the local level.

That may be true at some carriers, but not at all. I can only think of two lifers that sat on the MEC at Pinnacle during my tenure. Two out of six voting members doesn't a majority make.
 

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