National Seniority list

[ArcticFlier]

why would an airline bring in a pilot at 10 year pay when they can get a newbie at 1st year pay? because he is more experienced? because we know how important the safety experience brings is more important to management than getting it done on the cheap...see NWA

Because if we did this right, they would have no choice. You want a pilot? Here's the list.

Before anyone says, "well they'll just get around the guild and get a job." Why? First year pay is first year pay. Why screw up a career by going around the guild for a job you would get anyway?


AF

 

[Panda]

Here's an idea,

Let's have a real ATP written test with no kidding all the classroom academics akin to a JAA certification. Not only will that get our FAA tickets recognized and therefore enable us to purse positions overseas, but it will also limit the number of folks that become professional airline pilots.

Research has indicated that the supply of labor, more than anything else, is the driving factor in a natural increase/decrease of wages. A union creates a barrier to entry, sort to speak, and therefore limits the supply of labor. However, our union does not create that barrier. We don't require folks to go through an apprenticeship program (perhaps flight instructing and other time-building employment) in the traditional sense. And the fact that 500 hr bridge programs exist do not help the profession since the traditional flight building path has been bypassed.

Lets put some academics (of course grandfather all us that are in good standing) in our profession and watch the growth of the supply of pilots, at least possibly, slow down...and in the long-run, reverse the current wage trends.

My $0.02

 

[viper548]

Why not just make that the requirement for the commercial multi?

 

[Nindiri]

Legal problems aside, a national senority list would lead to some interesting situations. For example, Captains making less than half what their FO is making, senior pilots going from company to company cherry-picking the best jobs at the expense of other pilots who have worked hard.

Beware the law of unintended consequences.

 

[727gm]

And who gets on the list in what order? 25 year veteran of numerous non-union or foreign airlines that has only been ALPA for one year getting put junior to a 23 year-old Mesa 1900 captain because he's been ALPA for 2 years? Not a good idea unless EVERYONE started at about the same age.

 

[atrdriver]

Legal problems aside, a national senority list would lead to some interesting situations. For example, Captains making less than half what their FO is making, senior pilots going from company to company cherry-picking the best jobs at the expense of other pilots who have worked hard.

Beware the law of unintended consequences.

No, if you went to another carrier, you would still have to work your way up their seniority list, but your pay would not be based on that, it would be based on total time with the "guild". So a senior DAL captain wouldn't go to NWA, because even if the Captain payrates were better at NWA, he would be getting 20 or 25 year FO pay, because he would start as an FO at the new airline.

 

[Nindiri]

So who gets to say where a pilot can go to work at? Him or the union?

 

[ArcticFlier]

So who gets to say where a pilot can go to work at? Him or the union?

Your choice based on your number.


AF

 

[Nindiri]

Can you voluntarily wait until an opening comes that you want, or must you choose from whatever happens to be available at the time?

 

[J32driver]

ArcticFlier... you are right on with this. I've been thinking about it for a while. How about this for some rules. Some are painful, but thats what it will take.

First....divide the flying jobs into 2 different levels... majors/LCC/Large Cargo as one... and the regionals as the other.

Now... all sins must be forgiven... all Union and Non-Union pilots who are currently employed by a part 121 carrier are combined in a National Seniority list by Date of Hire (ties broken by birth date) with their current airline. Whallah...ONE LIST with TWO LEVELS.

Now the hard work is done, heres how this thing will function as a national system:

A brand new pilot must choose a regional company to work for. Once he chooses, he stays with that company until his national seniority can hold him a spot at the "Majors" level, OR he is furloughed from the regional. If he is furloughed, then he has the right to bump into wherever his National Seniority can hold him.

Works the same way at the Majors level. No company hopping! Pick a career track with the company you want and hope for the best. If you are furloughed.... then and only then do you have the right to bump into another company.

Heres the kicker that might make the Airlines buy off on it. The "Guild" must pick up the tab for ALL inititial training when a seniority bump happens. Upgrade, transition, and recurrent training are still at the cost of the airline. But initial training is being caused by the "Guild" if seniority bumping occurs.

The national contract is something entirely different.... but it must be common among all companies. No more beating us up because the undeducated 300 hour CFI's will work for free!


OK... enough out of me... back to the crackpipe.

 

[Bdfg1]

Is this possible? Would we want it?

Go to bed junior

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Who is going to pay for a National Seniority list?

 

[J32driver]

Who is going to pay for a National Seniority list?

We all are!

It would take an agreement or merger of every single Union and Non-Union carrier group out there. ALPA, Teamsters, APA....

It won't work unless every single pilot in the country only offers their services through the national "guild". We know that pilots are lo-life bottom feeders and won't do that on their own. Its therefore up to some organization to force it. And I have no idea how to make that happen.

 

[Nindiri]

How are you going to force them? If a group of pilots doesn't want to be part of this guild or national senority list, and an airline is willing to hire them instead of guild members, how would you stop it?

 

[ArcticFlier]

How do you stop a pilot from crossing a picket line? There would be no difference than the way it works now.

BTW ties would have to be broken by something random like the last four numbers of your SSN. Someone would scream about age discrimination or something.


AF