National seniority list.

[HalinTexas]

This discussion has departed reality.

No furloughed pilot from one carrier could displace a pilot from another carrier. If 2nd carrier was hiring, then the furloughed pilot could (should) slide into the equipment he is qualified on with DOH protection. But the hiring carrier would have to be compelled to hire from the "furloughed pilot" group. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a furloughed pilot has superior rights to a job.

As I've said before, furloughed pilots should get hiring priority, seniority is less of an issue than longevity for the purposes of pay/benefits.

When you speak of "unity" what else could you mean?

 

[waveflyer]

This would at least bring being a pilot closer to an actual profession with freedom of movement as opposed to being handcuffed to a single company and having to ride it all the way down because leaving would entail starting over. An Accountant or Attorney, etc., can leave for any reason if he doesn't like the direction his/her firm is going and usually makes more at the new company.

that's the point and the problem to be solved.
everyone knows i used to be the biggest fan of an NSL- i still think it could work- though it would be the mother of all seniority integrations.

flattening out pay rates and getting rid of 1st year pay seems more american.

 

[HalinTexas]

I'll fly anything and sit on the bottom of a list for what I was making last March before ATA shut down.

 

[noperf]

If those who brought this forward were willing to lead by example I've got a suggestion. Let them propose to the mangement of the airline(s) they work for to bring the senior SAS pilots who are being layed off out of senioruty onto their seniority list(s).

 

[waveflyer]

exactly-- it's not really the seniority problem- it's the pay problem-
the true problem is that this career has become a case of the have's and have not's. That doesn't work.

 

[B190Captain]

B190:

OK, so there are 10 jobs at Mesa, 6 at SkyWest, 1 at SWA and 1 at FDX and 108 applicants. Who gets what and how?

Just like it is today. Apply, interview, good luck!

It will not prioritize when seeking employment.If furloughed it would be up the employer to prioritize. If hired the pilot will fall based on your overall longevity to whatever seat or ac you can hold. To hold PIC will only be based on slot availability.

 

[Mamma]

Just like it is today. Apply, interview, good luck!

It will not prioritize when seeking employment.If furloughed it would be up the employer to prioritize. If hired the pilot will fall based on your overall longevity to whatever seat or ac you can hold. To hold PIC will only be based on slot availability.

Slot availability??? What FO is going to turn down a captain upgrade at their airline??? This list would be a knife in the back of all FOs looking to upgrade at THEIR airline if upgrades were open to all NSL pilots. Say I am next in line to upgrade at Alaska having waited 13 years and some guy from US Air with higher seniority wanted to move to Seattle and take that job. I would be pissed to no end. Why would a company go outside to find a captain when they have a fully trained FO that has the culture and processes ingrained? They would not. They move the FO up and hire a newbie for peanuts. There would never be available slots.

 

[B190Captain]

Slot availability??? What FO is going to turn down a captain upgrade at their airline??? This list would be a knife in the back of all FOs looking to upgrade at THEIR airline if upgrades were open to all NSL pilots. Say I am next in line to upgrade at Alaska having waited 13 years and some guy from US Air with higher seniority wanted to move to Seattle and take that job. I would be pissed to no end. Why would a company go outside to find a captain when they have a fully trained FO that has the culture and processes ingrained? They would not. They move the FO up and hire a newbie for peanuts. There would never be available slots.

FO's turning down captain slots do happen. Some turn it down for quality of life or they want to be permafos. I am not saying I have all the answers but I would rather be a 15 year pilot and keep my 15 years wherever I go.

Maybe it could be just for pay then? If you are moving to another carrier because you want to move to Seattle you would have to start at the bottom as far as seat and entry equipment but keep your longevity pay.

Just ideas folks. I am not writing policy here..LOL

 

[~~~^~~~]

I understand the longevity arguement & agree, but airlines are going to do their darn'est to avoid hiring those with pay longevity.

The former President of my former employer stood in recurrent and told our class of Captains the airline's problems were the direct result of our longevity making us more expensive than the airline that was replacing us. We "old timers" in our mid-thirties needed to move on, or else the market would do it for us.

In many ways, this problem is an ALPA construct. The absence of scope on the regional level makes the market seek out the lowest cost operator, which is always the airline with the new pilots and new airplanes.

Again, United needs to fix the flying within their own brand before they branch out to claim longevity on other's property IMHO.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

This is the mother of all bad ideas, a national seniority list removes all scope language from all contracts(everyone is on one list right?). EXTREMELY DANGEROUS given the loose bankruptcy laws. We would all be one 1113(c) away from total career destruction.