National Mediation Board: East and West -- Single Carrier Status

[waveflyer]

• 5% total member particaption in LEC meetings.
• 35% total member particaption in LEC elections
• 16% total member particaption in ALPA-PAC
• 39% total member particaption in Age 60 survey.

Answer me this waveflyer.....are the above particaption rates acceptable? Yes or No.

No. Not at all.

It's that mirror again- what are you doing to increase those participation rates? Do you think these posts help? You sound apathetic toward your apathetic membership-- say hello to "irony"- ntm- holier than though.

It's kind of like how you don't want to go to church when you know you'll get the "cluck-cluck" finger wag b/c you haven't been in so long... instead of a welcoming hand.

 

[waveflyer]

Are you kidding? I thought we'd been pretty clear. I want people to go to their Local Council meetings. Yes, even if it's on a day off. I want people to read the ALPA C & BLs and Admin Manual so they know how their union works. I want people to educate themselves on the issues and vote in polls and elections. I want people to contribute a reasonable amount of money to ALPA-PAC. I want people to read both volumes of Flying the Line. I want people to file grievances when their contractual rights are violated. I want people to show up to picketing events. Again, yes, even if it's on a day off. Is that clear enough?

That's clear and well put. Get rid of the guilt trip/holier than thou attitude and it might have an effect.

Now tell me- what are the roles of the leaders?

 

[PCL_128]

That's clear and well put. Get rid of the guilt trip/holier than thou attitude and it might have an effect.

People will always think it's "holier than thou" when you tell them that they need to take responsibility for their own careers rather than depending on some nebulous entity called ALPA to just do it for them.

Now tell me- what are the roles of the leaders?

In general, the leaders are there to run the organization to the best of their ability. The problem, of course, is that their effectiveness is highly dependent on an involved rank-and-file. The very best leaders will still lack effectiveness if the followers refuse to follow. A general is nothing without his army. ALPA has plenty of generals in Herndon, but very few of the 66,000 soldiers are willing to follow. The problems within ALPA are not a result of lack of leadership, they are a result of a lack of followership. When the leaders ask for the members to show up and picket, only a handful show up. When the leaders ask them members to show up to a huge labor rally in DC, only guys like me and Rez show up. My picture has been in the paper a few times already. We don't need anymore pictures of PCL_128 in the newspaper representing ALPA. We need pictures of waveflyer and other rank-and-file members. When the same "usual suspects" are the only ones showing up to every single event, you can't expect ALPA to be effective. The membership must take ownership of their union if the leadership is to be effective.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Hey PCL

With "followership" the likes of what waveflyer provides,it must make you somewhat glad to be a member of a different union.

PHXFLYR

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL

With "followership" the likes of what waveflyer provides,it must make you somewhat glad to be a member of a different union.

PHXFLYR

Ummm, no. I'd give my left nut for some ALPA representation here.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No. Not at all.

It's that mirror again- what are you doing to increase those participation rates? Do you think these posts help? You sound apathetic toward your apathetic membership-- say hello to "irony"- ntm- holier than though.

So I have to coddle pilots on FI to get them to take ownership in their own careers? Maybe lure them with door prizes? Make them feel good about taking ownership for thier careers.

Again... pilots get on the message boards and complain. I say... get involved. but I also have to emotionally placate them..... all this for thier careers?

It's kind of like how you don't want to go to church when you know you'll get the "cluck-cluck" finger wag b/c you haven't been in so long... instead of a welcoming hand.

Why would you elect someone that would wag a finger?

Have you been to an LEC meeting? If so... did you get chided? If so... that is too bad. But who elected whom. (a problem with ALPA... they don't train thier elected leaders to be leaders... when a pilot gets elected.. any leadership style of his goes.. whether its true leadership or command and control.... ALPA needs to fix this.... it is on the volunteers list of things to do....)

I've been to LEC meetings... and I have been chided... I hated it... not for me... but for the pilots there becasue I felt they would do exactly what you stated.... not show up again...

So when I was an LEC officer we made a good effort to make the meetings enjoyable and worthwile....the particaption rates simply didn't change much...

At my latest LEC it was the same deal... until the recall vote.... or at my first LEC.. same deal.. until the company slashed the seniority list by 50%...then the attendence was a significant majority...

So whats the deal? Why the apathy until crises mode?

And what s the deal with elections... it takes 60 secs to vote online. 1/3 particaption rate. As americans of the greatest democratic country in the world, professionals need to be told to vote? We are professionals, not low income lazy bums living on welfare checks.... Explain that waveflyer...


And the problem is... without membership particaption, the company thinks the union guys are just a fringe unit that somehow got control of the pilots. When an LEC officer approaches the company with a 35% voter participation, the company thinks... "your pilots don't care....why should we...don't call us we will call you"


A big problem with ALPA is it sells itself to pilots as how great the origanization is in terms of what ALPA is going to do for the pilot. How ALPA is going to make it all better. It is a quick and cheap sale... it didn't work at skywest and it doesn't work for the current members... problem is.. the pilots think... ALPA serves me. It couldn't be further from the truth..

But as college educated professionals of a democratic society, I say we have a responsibility...

What do you think?

I caught a snipet of Defense Sec Gates commencement speech in USAToday. So I sourced the entire speech.

As workers Corp America is a totalitarian regime. There is only one choice. Work or quit. There is no due process, no say. Has your company ever asked for and seriously considered your imput on policy that significantly effected you? Maybe, but that is few are far between. Unions, in this country, however, are democracies. They are self government.

Currently, union democracy particaption rates are in line with American culture. About 30% of Americans and union members bother to participate in the lection of thier representatives.

Is democracy in union activities un-American? As Americans do we not have duty to embrace and sustain democracy regardless of the organization that uses democracy?

Here is the link for the full speech. I've cut and paste a portion. The first paragraph below applies to the future of the Air Line Pilot profession via union democracy.

Plato: One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=1152

While volunteering for a good cause is important, it is not enough. This country will only survive and progress as a democracy if its citizens—young and old alike—take an active role in its political life as well.


Sad to say, that precious franchise, purchased and preserved by the blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans your age and younger from 1776 to today, has not been adequately appreciated or exercised by your generation.


In 2004, with our nation embroiled in two difficult and controversial wars, the voting percentage was only 42 percent for those aged 18 to 24.
Ed Muskie, former senator and Secretary of State, once said that “you have the God given right to kick the government around.” And it starts with voting, and becoming involved in campaigns. If you think that too many politicians are feckless and corrupt, then go out and help elect different ones. Or go out and run yourself. But you must participate, or else the decisions that affect your life and the future of our country will be made for you—and without you.


So vote. And volunteer. But also consider doing something else: dedicating at least part of your life in service to our country.
I entered public life more than 40 years ago, and no one is more familiar with the hassles, frustrations and sacrifices of public service than I am. Government is, by design of the Founding Fathers, slow, unwieldy and almost comically inefficient. Will Rogers used to say: “I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”


These frustrations are inherent in a system of checks and balances, of divisions and limitations of power. Our Founding Fathers did not have efficiency as their primary goal. They designed a system intended to sustain and protect liberty for the ages. Getting things done in government is not easy, but it’s not supposed to be.



I will close with a quote from a letter John Adams sent to one of their other sons, Thomas Boylston Adams. And he wrote:“Public business, my son, must always be done by somebody. It will be done by somebody or another. If wise men decline it, others will not; if honest men refuse it, others will not.”



Will the wise and the honest among you come help us serve the American people?