National Mediation Board: East and West -- Single Carrier Status

[Deadalus]

What does single carrier status mean to the East and West guys. Many things.

The vote for USAPA will be voted on by all pilots at mainline US Airways. Now this where everything gets real interesting.

Three outcomes are possible. Some better than others depending on who you are and your point of view.

First USAPA wins a majority, 50% plus one and becomes the new union. Probably good for East guys, makes them feel better. Good for West pilots, they get a raise in their paycheck due to no union dues. Or the West guys take their union dues and sue USAPA, over seniority. (Arbitrator's seniority list does not go away. USAPA has to go to court and prove to the judge the award is unfair. Again never has an arbitrator's award been thrown out.)

Second, ALPA gets 50% plus 1 and they remain on property. East guys are still mad, and a contract will never get voted in. Majority of West guys a happy, even though not 100% liking ALPA, but know a contract is years away.

Third, and nobody talks about this. Neither USAPA or ALPA get 50% plus 1 and we end up with no union at all. Have to wait 2 years, that right 2 years, to have another vote. Company still has to honor our contracts, but a new contract is at least 2 plus years away. Company is happy, because they can now railroad our contracts. East and West pilots are both pissed off. USAirways performance slip even further, we loose customers and in 3 years are in BK again, and possible looking at liquidation. Thus the East guys get what they keep saying, "If we don't get things are way, we will shut the airline done."

Time will tell which scenario gets played out. But in the end the employees I am sure are going to loose.

iflyhigh

Good post.

 

[TWA Dude]

Well...as we have seen nin the past, a pilot who refuses to pay his dues is terminated by the company as per the union agreement.

1750 pilots getting terminated? Not bloody likely. And what fun it'll be if the Easties actually try to make it happen.

 

[MCDU]

You only get terminated if you due not pay your dues. Your choice. TWA DUDE go back to AMR. It will be a good change. I know you are trying to hold on to your NIC number, but it will not happen. Sorry. Furloughed guys are holding 190 Capt. positions and are line holders again. Their relative seniority went from 115% ala Nic to 70 %.

 

[ferlo]

I have never heard of a single, verifiable instance, where a pilot was fired for not paying union dues.


quote=Tejas-Jet;1502923]Well...as we have seen nin the past, a pilot who refuses to pay his dues is terminated by the company as per the union agreement.

Said pilot may then sue whoever he feels has injured him...but he will be out of a job at that airline...pretty quickly.

Most pilots however, see the writing on the wall and make arrangements to pay up. Family...mortgage...kids in college....all play a part in said pilot's decision making process.

I saw this all happen with the ALPA assessmant during the Eastern strike. A certain group of pilots felt that they didn't want to pay....in the end...they did.[/quote]

 

[PCL_128]

What does single carrier status mean to the East and West guys. Many things.

The vote for USAPA will be voted on by all pilots at mainline US Airways. Now this where everything gets real interesting.

Three outcomes are possible. Some better than others depending on who you are and your point of view.

First USAPA wins a majority, 50% plus one and becomes the new union. Probably good for East guys, makes them feel better. Good for West pilots, they get a raise in their paycheck due to no union dues. Or the West guys take their union dues and sue USAPA, over seniority. (Arbitrator's seniority list does not go away. USAPA has to go to court and prove to the judge the award is unfair. Again never has an arbitrator's award been thrown out.)

Second, ALPA gets 50% plus 1 and they remain on property. East guys are still mad, and a contract will never get voted in. Majority of West guys a happy, even though not 100% liking ALPA, but know a contract is years away.

Third, and nobody talks about this. Neither USAPA or ALPA get 50% plus 1 and we end up with no union at all. Have to wait 2 years, that right 2 years, to have another vote. Company still has to honor our contracts, but a new contract is at least 2 plus years away. Company is happy, because they can now railroad our contracts. East and West pilots are both pissed off. USAirways performance slip even further, we loose customers and in 3 years are in BK again, and possible looking at liquidation. Thus the East guys get what they keep saying, "If we don't get things are way, we will shut the airline done."

Time will tell which scenario gets played out. But in the end the employees I am sure are going to loose.

iflyhigh

Close, but not 100% accurate. For a union to stay on property, neither side has to get 50% + 1 vote. For any union to stay, 50% +1 must vote for either side, and the group that gets the majority of those votes will be the representative. Examples:

Example 1: Only 49% of the total combined group bothers to vote. In this case, no side wins, and ALPA is decertified. The groups go without representation for at least two years, unless the NMB gives special authorization to conduct a vote after 1 year, which would be unlikely.

Example 2: 51% of the combined group votes. 26% vote for ALPA, and 25% vote for USAPA. Although neither side broke the 50% barrier on their own, since at least 50% + 1 voted in favor of some form of representation, the group with the majority of those votes wins. In this example, ALPA would continue to be the representative, even though they only received 26% of the total pilot group's votes.

 

[PCL_128]

Well...as we have seen nin the past, a pilot who refuses to pay his dues is terminated by the company as per the union agreement.

That's only the case when that union has an agency shop clause negotiated with the company. USAPA would have no agency shop, unless the company agreed to negotiate one right out of the blocks (highly unlikely, since I'd imagine that a huge number of West pilots will refuse to pay dues). The likelihood of USAPA ever successfully negotiating agency shop is close to 0%.

 

[vetrider]

Now now PCL, the company will give them agency shop, doh, their pensions back, and their pay back.

Why? Because they are u SAP a, thats why. From the pilot up, u SAP a is gonna cure everything from a bald head to fallen arches.

These u SAP a bozos seem to forget the company is still gonna be as intransigent as ever and the u SAP a brain trust is the same brain trust they have had all along.

Those u SAP a guys are such putzes that they pronounce it that way. You'd think they would pronounce it in a more masculine and authoritative way, such as u SAH Pah, but no, they'd rather have the pipsqueek sounding u SAP a.

Even Adolph Hitler knew that had his name remained Shickelgruber the world would have never heard of him. He knew Heil Shickelgruber would have sounded ridicules and that would have been that.

 

[PCL_128]

Now now PCL, the company will give them agency shop, doh, their pensions back, and their pay back.

You're right! How could I have forgotten!?! USAPA will solve all of the world's ills. Global warming? Forget about it! Poverty? History! Disease? USAPA's got it taken care of. No need to worry, people; USAPA is here to save the day! [/sarcasm]

 

[Tomct]

More East guys stomping their feet like spoiled children:crying: in the candy store. Wasting more time instead of concentrating on getting a GOOD contract. Nice job...way to use those brains!

 

[vetrider]

And one other thing, American Airlines pilots, if you are listening, don't think you will run over u SAP a pilots in the event of an acquisition. No sir, u SAP a will have doh in it's bylaws, you guys will be screwed.