National Mediation Board: East and West -- Single Carrier Status

[PCL_128]

OH, your are aware of the democratic process? What about the poll for age 65?

You contradict yourself.

You mean the poll that the majority of the membership didn't participate in? I agree that ALPA screwed up on Age 60, but the membership also shoulders the blame because they were too lazy to vote in a simple online poll.

 

[Falconjet]

So I guess you two numbnuts are going to blame everybody else besides yourselves and ALPA national when we get steamrolled by open skies?

I can't wait to read all about how f'd up we poor line pilots are from Rez and PCL. National never does any wrong, its all the pilots' fault.

Right. In that case, I guess its the people's fault that we are at war in Iraq, since only about half the country voted in the last election and so it can't be any elected official's fault.

What a lame argument. Sorry for the thread drift.

FJ

 

[PCL_128]

So I guess you two numbnuts are going to blame everybody else besides yourselves and ALPA national when we get steamrolled by open skies?

I certainly don't see any of the rank and file too concerned with it. They're too busy just flying their trips and going home to play golf. They can't be bothered with something like open skies. But you can bet they'll bitch and whine like hell when politics in DC once again steamrolls right over them and their apathy.

Right. In that case, I guess its the people's fault that we are at war in Iraq, since only about half the country voted in the last election and so it can't be any elected official's fault.

Maybe if 70% or 80% of the American electorate would get off their collective ass and come out and vote for anti-war candidates then they'd get the withdrawal from Iraq that they want. Otherwise, the politicians in Washington will take advantage of the apathy among the people and do whatever the hell they want to do. Starting to see a pattern here? The people (aka the membership) have the power to change things, but they have to take the initiative to do it. Lounging around on their asses all day and watching Britney's latest breakdown on TV will get them exactly what they complain about: a government that doesn't work for the people.

 

[jke406]

deleted

 

[PHXFLYR]

More East guys stomping their feet like spoiled children:crying: in the candy store. Wasting more time instead of concentrating on getting a GOOD contract. Nice job...way to use those brains!

Brains ??? easties have brains??!!??

WHO KNEW ?!!??!??

PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So I guess you two numbnuts are going to blame everybody else besides yourselves and ALPA national when we get steamrolled by open skies?

ALPA is not regulatory. It's ability to effect change is via consensus. If 60,000 pilots say no then its gets attention. This is why all pilots need to be under one union. When 100,000 say no... all in the USA... Congress will listen.

Back in May 06 at the rally in Wash DC at the mall... 100 pilots showed up....

what do you think is more effective... 100 pilots or 60,000? Or 100,000?

I can't wait to read all about how f'd up we poor line pilots are from Rez and PCL. National never does any wrong, its all the pilots' fault.

National does plenty wrong... but pilots are too busy on the golf course or starting second business to call them out. And when they do call them out they are really not informed on the issue. Take age 60 for example.. ALPA ran its survey with its little get out of jail card free question: If the law were to change would you want ALPA to make it as painless as possible (my words). An active, effective and engaged membership could have called bullshat....

But you don't want to be effective... you got tee times...

Are you saying educated, informed and effective democracy has no value?

Right. In that case, I guess its the people's fault that we are at war in Iraq, since only about half the country voted in the last election and so it can't be any elected official's fault.

Where would you place blame in a democratic society?

Do citizens of a democracy have responsibilities?

 

[waveflyer]

Rez/ PCL- what specifically do you want? All i hear is vague condemnations. What do you want right now that you're not getting?

 

[PCL_128]

Rez/ PCL- what specifically do you want? All i hear is vague condemnations. What do you want right now that you're not getting?

Are you kidding? I thought we'd been pretty clear. I want people to go to their Local Council meetings. Yes, even if it's on a day off. I want people to read the ALPA C & BLs and Admin Manual so they know how their union works. I want people to educate themselves on the issues and vote in polls and elections. I want people to contribute a reasonable amount of money to ALPA-PAC. I want people to read both volumes of Flying the Line. I want people to file grievances when their contractual rights are violated. I want people to show up to picketing events. Again, yes, even if it's on a day off. Is that clear enough?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez/ PCL- what specifically do you want? All i hear is vague condemnations. What do you want right now that you're not getting?

• 5% total member particaption in LEC meetings.
• 35% total member particaption in LEC elections
• 16% total member particaption in ALPA-PAC
• 39% total member particaption in Age 60 survey.

Answer me this waveflyer.....are the above particaption rates acceptable? Yes or No.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I want people to read the ALPA C & BLs and Admin Manual so they know how their union works.

Funny.... pilots will read their FOM and Flight Manual so they can fly the jet.... but they just can't seem to read the manual on how to "fly thier career".

Tens of Millions of dollars in income over decades.... and pilots won't read the manual.....

 

[waveflyer]

• 5% total member particaption in LEC meetings.
• 35% total member particaption in LEC elections
• 16% total member particaption in ALPA-PAC
• 39% total member particaption in Age 60 survey.

Answer me this waveflyer.....are the above particaption rates acceptable? Yes or No.

No. Not at all.

It's that mirror again- what are you doing to increase those participation rates? Do you think these posts help? You sound apathetic toward your apathetic membership-- say hello to "irony"- ntm- holier than though.

It's kind of like how you don't want to go to church when you know you'll get the "cluck-cluck" finger wag b/c you haven't been in so long... instead of a welcoming hand.

 

[waveflyer]

Are you kidding? I thought we'd been pretty clear. I want people to go to their Local Council meetings. Yes, even if it's on a day off. I want people to read the ALPA C & BLs and Admin Manual so they know how their union works. I want people to educate themselves on the issues and vote in polls and elections. I want people to contribute a reasonable amount of money to ALPA-PAC. I want people to read both volumes of Flying the Line. I want people to file grievances when their contractual rights are violated. I want people to show up to picketing events. Again, yes, even if it's on a day off. Is that clear enough?

That's clear and well put. Get rid of the guilt trip/holier than thou attitude and it might have an effect.

Now tell me- what are the roles of the leaders?

 

[PCL_128]

That's clear and well put. Get rid of the guilt trip/holier than thou attitude and it might have an effect.

People will always think it's "holier than thou" when you tell them that they need to take responsibility for their own careers rather than depending on some nebulous entity called ALPA to just do it for them.

Now tell me- what are the roles of the leaders?

In general, the leaders are there to run the organization to the best of their ability. The problem, of course, is that their effectiveness is highly dependent on an involved rank-and-file. The very best leaders will still lack effectiveness if the followers refuse to follow. A general is nothing without his army. ALPA has plenty of generals in Herndon, but very few of the 66,000 soldiers are willing to follow. The problems within ALPA are not a result of lack of leadership, they are a result of a lack of followership. When the leaders ask for the members to show up and picket, only a handful show up. When the leaders ask them members to show up to a huge labor rally in DC, only guys like me and Rez show up. My picture has been in the paper a few times already. We don't need anymore pictures of PCL_128 in the newspaper representing ALPA. We need pictures of waveflyer and other rank-and-file members. When the same "usual suspects" are the only ones showing up to every single event, you can't expect ALPA to be effective. The membership must take ownership of their union if the leadership is to be effective.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Hey PCL

With "followership" the likes of what waveflyer provides,it must make you somewhat glad to be a member of a different union.

PHXFLYR

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL

With "followership" the likes of what waveflyer provides,it must make you somewhat glad to be a member of a different union.

PHXFLYR

Ummm, no. I'd give my left nut for some ALPA representation here.