My response to SWA package!

[Kharma Police]

Plus more than 30 AAI new hires since the snapshot plus whatever SW has put on since Jan. (180 or so?)

Straight DOH plus some hefty cash incentives for the SWA guys that take any perceived career damage really seems like an easy way to go. It inflicts some pain on members from both groups and lets everyone quickly move on. Yeah, some of our guys lose the left seat, and yeah the junior SW FO's get riled up....but it's easy and logical and leaves emotion and elitist attitudes at the doorstep.

It also sets a fair precedent for the next mercuisition.

I guess you didn't read the 100's of emails saying not to discuss SLI expectations on a public forum? I could care less if the SW pilots do it, they can police their own.

 

[SWA/FO]

I gots 150 TFP for July, bitches! :beer:

 

[OldManPilot]

Ty said: There is only one group that threatens to ignore the Agreement if they don't get their way . . . . and it isn't the AirTran pilots.

Well Ty "keeping it real" Webb, there is only one group that has anything to lose in this deal...

What's wrong with DOH with Pay Protection for the downgraded AAI CPs?...what do you lose Ty?

I think that is fair... my opinion

 

[SWA/FO]

I don't understand "Pay protecting" someone that is due a raise.

However, in the past Southwest has paid, what the crew memeber was making or the higher amount - where they fall within the list. Make no mistake about it, its going to be a raise.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't understand "Pay protecting" someone that is due a raise.

However, in the past Southwest has paid, what the crew memeber was making or the higher amount - where they fall within the list. Make no mistake about it, its going to be a raise.

SWA/FO-

You obviously can't read an hourly pay chart . . . . And based upon your comments posted to this site last night, money sure isn't buying you happiness; you must be about the most unhappy person I have seen on here in a long time.

Making threats against your coworkers on an internet message board? Really? Might be time to look into the HIMMS program.

Seriously.

 

[Kharma Police]

I gots 150 TFP for July, bitches! :beer:

If it weren't for that pamphlet that was sent to us I would have had no idea what you were talking about, thanks SWAPA!

 

[redflyer65]

SWA/FO-

You obviously can't read an hourly pay chart

I can, which part do you have questions about? I've rehashed this ad nauseum. Senior SW FO's make the same as any AAI CA's when using straight guarantee. If I were to use the 'snapshot' payscale, then the SW FO is definitely higher, no question.

In reality, the SW FO's end of the year W-2 will most likely be higher due to the effeciencies of the SW schedule, the big difference in the TFP system, and other soft money gains.

Your FO's topped out at 79/hr on the last contract and the SW FO's are above 150/hr when converted. Anyone doubt that's a massive difference?

RF

 

[Ty Webb]

I know it's hard to make sense of SWA/FO's demented ramblings, but I believe he was comparing 10 year CA pay (AAI) and 10 yr FO pay (SWA). The difference is about $20./hr., or $20K- $30K difference.

Even using the SWAPA projections, which were a bit skewed, the difference was still about $1,000./month.

 

[tankerhead]

I guess you didn't read the 100's of emails saying not to discuss SLI expectations on a public forum? I could care less if the SW pilots do it, they can police their own.

Sorry, sir. Not sure why you've singled out my post for admonishment, when it's not vastly different from the mental masturbation spewing from both corndogs and trannies. But you'll not hear from me again. If I could get my $10 back, I'll give up my account. It's been the lousiest ten bucks I ever spent, kinda like a VD, just keeps on making me feel bad.

Oh yeah, before I forever bow out from FI corn-tranny-dog forums, you wouldn't be a junior CA, wouldya?

Kaybye!

 

[GoodTimes]

Ty,

Let's not talk pay rates without also talking TFP/month or hours/month. The two go hand in hand, right? Our lines are built at 95 - 100 TFP/month right out of the blocks. Trading and open time play puts that number closer to 105 - 110 with same number of days worked. No spin.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

Let's not talk pay rates without also talking TFP/month or hours/month. The two go hand in hand, right? Our lines are built at 95 - 100 TFP/month right out of the blocks. Trading and open time play puts that number closer to 105 - 110 with same number of days worked. No spin.

Like I said, even using the numbers that SWAPA put out, (I'm looking at 'em) the difference is over $1,000./month more for 10th yr AAI CA than 10th yr SWA FO.

These are SWAPA's numbers. What's to argue?

 

[scarlet]

Yeah. Love they keep comparing our rates of the old contract.

So tell us when your senior FOs would upgrade without Airtran? Without ATs 50 737s on order? You got 2 of them thus year. SWA is ONLY replacing AC.

They may upgrade by 2015? Now with AT, 2012/2013/2014 will see upgrades.

Thoughts. I think the senior FOs would say THANK YOU AT for having those aircraft on order !!

I threw my package in file 13. Its tge same package they gave us last December at the road shows. Waste of alot of money. Fedex says thank you.

 

[redflyer65]

Ty,

What part of the numbers below do you not understand?


AAI most senior CA rate 163/hr X 70hr guarantee = 11,410 per month.

SW most senior FO rate 130.24/trip X 87 guarantee = 11,330 per month.

This is using your NEW payrates as well.

Does anyone see the irony here?

Where comparing FO's to CA's here! Unbelievable.

At the end of the year Ty, believe me the FO's W-2 is going to be larger.

 

[redflyer65]

Yeah. Love they keep comparing our rates of the old contract.

It's because you got those new shiny payrates because of Southwest.

Are you really going to sit here and deny that? Really?

 

[Quiet Flight]

Ive never seen a group try so hard to screw up something so good. Ever heard the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?

Having just looked at my neighbors SWA/SWAPA packet I see that as a 4 1/2 year F/O I make more than almost 80% of Guadalupe "Captains". You Guadalupe guys should be pissed about this deal. No matter how it turns out. I mean who goes to work to earn money anymore? It's all about the uniform and which way you have to turn your gigantic head in order to see the winglet, right?

Oh and it still sucks here. Bad place to work. Culture is a sham. Lousy work rules. Horrible relationship with management. Don't come here. You will hate it.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Like I said, even using the numbers that SWAPA put out, (I'm looking at 'em) the difference is over $1,000./month more for 10th yr AAI CA than 10th yr SWA FO.

These are SWAPA's numbers. What's to argue?

I am SWA 5th year F/O who is going to make over $200,000 this year. Last year I cleared $178,000

 

[madjack]

Scarlet,


Its obvious you didn't read the SWA info because you would be thanking SWA for buying AAI instead of asking the SWA pilots to thank you for being bought. You have a lot more to gain in this acquisition than any SWA pilot. SWA acquired AAI to eliminate a competitor not for your aircraft orders...as far as growth goes for AAI, well that went away the day you were sold to SWA.

You are comparing upgrade times at SWA with upgrade time at a smaller,weaker,substantially lower paying carrier. If it was so great at AAI why did so many AAI pilots leave for SWA or had apps on file??

Ty "keepin it real" Webb: Based on DOH you would be very senior SWA FO and you could pick the most productive lines, best vacation months, have the Holiday's off (or work them for holiday pay)...life would be good and if we get the growth the AAI pilots say they are bringing to this deal you would be a SWA CP very soon and then you get the big raise...what do you lose if you are pay protected?

 

[redflyer65]

Ty "keepin it real" Webb: Based on DOH you would be very senior SWA FO and you could pick the most productive lines, best vacation months, have the Holiday's off (or work them for holiday pay)...life would be good and if we get the growth the AAI pilots say they are bringing to this deal you would be a SWA CP very soon and then you get the big raise...what do you lose if you are pay protected?

His ego won't allow it. If I were given the same exact option as you lay out, I can honestly say I would jump at the chance. Without hesitation.

Best schedule, best vacation, more pay, and no left seat responsiblity? Throw a re-call to CA in that could be just around the corner? No brainer in my book.

 

[Ty Webb]

Scarlet,
SWA acquired AAI to eliminate a competitor not for your aircraft orders...as far as growth goes for AAI, well that went away the day you were sold to SWA.

Wow.

No point discussing this any further with you, you're out of your mind. It's like to trying to argue religion with some guy that's wearing a burlap sack outside of a 7-11.

WAIT! Was that you? "Burlap Man?" Holy crap!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

His ego won't allow it. If I were given the same exact option as you lay out, I can honestly say I would jump at the chance. Without hesitation.

Best schedule, best vacation, more pay, and no left seat responsiblity? Throw a re-call to CA in that could be just around the corner? No brainer in my book.

You guys sure talk a good game, but it looks like you want our captain seats badly enough to destroy your own company over them. Don't talk to me about ego.

 

[funnyman12]

I agree with many comments on here but at the same time GK is not going to want to downgrade 400 AAI pilots and upgrade 400 SW fo's....you have to take those pilots off the line, cover their flying, and $20,000 per pilot training costs. Also most of those guys are in the 717, so it would require even more time and money...also you need 300 hrs in type to give a check ride per the FAA. Your contract requires SW pilots to be checked by SW pilots? I will imagine GK will address this with both unions....I could be wrong. Please explain how this would be feasible?

 

[redflyer65]

Here's a newsflash Ty, SWAPA or Gary won't destory anything that Herb has built over the last 40 years. You think otherwise, you're dreaming.

 

[Ty Webb]

Here's a newsflash Ty, SWAPA or Gary won't destory anything that Herb has built over the last 40 years. You think otherwise, you're dreaming.

That's good, because the way some of you guys talk, seemed like you guys were ready to piss away everything that they had worked for.

 

[ASADFW7]

The details from this week I am sure will splash across the Internet like my kid whizzing all over a public bathroom, just get it out, who cares about direction.

 

[madjack]

Ty "keepin it real" Webb, so which part is not true? The FACT your company was bought by SWA, the FACT of being bought is the end of AAI growth, the FACT SWA did not need your a/c orders but bought you to eliminate a competitor.

Hey bro, you sling some pretty good arrows. On this very forum you have implied that you EXPECT to become a SWA CP as a result of this acquisition. I am a senior SWA FO with more longevity at SWA than you have at AAI...as a SWA CP you gain pay, position and seniority while I "lose nothing". All the gains cannot go to you...the AAI pilots will have to share the gains of this acquisition with the SWA pilots, that is Fair and Equitable.

 

[madjack]

Ty "keeping it real" Webb said: That's good, because the way some of you guys talk, seemed like you guys were ready to piss away everything that they had worked for.

Hey there big guy...no ones talking "nuclear option", staple, different pay rates for the 717 etc...no threats, but the law says this acquisition has to be Fair and Equitable, you will have to share the gains of this acquistion...you gain a position on the list that bypasses SWA FOs with more longevity than you have at AAI, that is a clear windfall...what is in it for the SWA FOs?? Why do you get to gain so much??

 

[funnyman12]

I agree with many comments on here but at the same time GK is not going to want to downgrade 400 AAI pilots and upgrade 400 SW fo's....you have to take those pilots off the line, cover their flying, and $20,000 per pilot training costs. Also most of those guys are in the 717, so it would require even more time and money...also you need 300 hrs in type to give a check ride per the FAA. Your contract requires SW pilots to be checked by SW pilots? I will imagine GK will address this with both unions....I could be wrong. Please explain how this would be feasible?

Madjack....I definitely understand and agree with many of your concerns....I quoted myself but I would like to know how GK could downgrade 400 AAI guys....seems like a huge expensive task.

 

[madjack]

Hey Funnyman...I don't know how/if it can be done, but I do know that closing the gap with the TANGIBLE gains the AAI pilots are getting as a result of this acquisition is worth it for every SWA pilot.

I can only speak for myself but I am not in the "nuclear option", staple or different pay rate for the 717 camp...hell I can't wait for you guys to get the extra $$ and benefits, but I am not going to agree that a SWA pilot should be junior (or subordinate) to an AAI pilot with less years at AAI than the SWA pilot has at SWA.

 

[funnyman12]

Understood.....im sure the MC's can/will work out a deal that addresses your concerns and some of ours too. Im still optimistic....

 

[SWA/CA]

I agree with many comments on here but at the same time GK is not going to want to downgrade 400 AAI pilots and upgrade 400 SW fo's....you have to take those pilots off the line, cover their flying, and $20,000 per pilot training costs.

Its easy, Air Tran Pilots have to go through training REGARDLESS of what their "title" is going to be.

Management is going to take 2 Tranny 737s off line and 3 717s (if they keep them) starting in March to paint and make it look like the rest of them. At this time, probably starting in January... 2 classes a month of new FOs through the training center. Remember you guys are fat when it comes to staffing (flying a SWA schedule). Lately, they cut out flights in the winter and free up some Pilots.