My response to SWA package!

[Lear70]

I think the topic will be more along the lines of how can SWA grease your skids to get you to come to the middle ground, I don't think SWA will grease SWAPA in any profound way.

That's very possible. The idea occurred to me early on that it might be cheaper to pay protect the AAI side of the fence than the SWA side.

Most likely, the greasing will be to both sides. We'll see.

As long as it doesn't come with motorcycle pants and a ball gag, I'm good with that.

 

[SWA/FO]

That's very possible. The idea occurred to me early on that it might be cheaper to pay protect the AAI side of the fence than the SWA side.

They are all getting raises. Pay protect would be less money.

 

[waveflyer]

the only thing we have to give on is seniority

Well said.

 

[redflyer65]

I'd have to agree.

 

[Lear70]

Hey Lear...

And it begins. I was wondering how long it would take the Gen/OYS to throw you under the bus for being associated with Southwest. I guess the answer is July 10th, 2011.

Like beginning to a new Era. Welcome to club.

RF

Heh heh...

 

[bravodude]

If you're looking for EQUIVALENT gain, you're not going to find it. In just about every integration in the history of aviation, one side has gained more than the other, whether it's increased pay rates, a better retirement plan, what have you. In this example, yes, our MONETARY increase in career potential can't be evened out, there's just not enough money to spread throughout 6,000+ pilots.

That being said, yes, I believe the Southwest pilots should benefit from this transaction. I believe they WILL in the form of increased upgrade expectations, company growth and increased stability, increased profit sharing from increased revenue and cost synergies, etc. Those aren't my claims, those are what GK has told investors time and time again about this deal. As much as your pilots claim to have total faith in him, you also have to have total faith in his projections of future benefit.

As for what IMMEDIATE MONETARY gains SWAPA pilots may gain from this, that's something you'll have to communicate to your NC. It wouldn't surprise me if Tuesday's presentation by SWA management included some monetary incentives to help "grease the wheels" for the SWAPA pilots but, again, there's just not enough money for SWAPA pilots to receive from management that will match what AAI pilots will receive from management for their work over their Southwest career.

Yes, your union negotiated those rates that AAI pilots will work under, but your union will receive dues from us in exchange for negotiating those rates - your new hires didn't have to pay for them in advance as a condition of their employment, and neither should we. That whole argument just doesn't hold up.

In short, SWAPA pilots should definitely benefit from this merger. Protecting your career advancement under the new growth model is something your NC will work out with our MC. Additional compensation is something your NC will be working with your management on.

Anything else just isn't supported by the arbitration process. Hopefully those gains your NC negotiates with SWA management and a more profitable company (according to GK, not me) will be worth it for you to endorse what your NC sends to vote. Only you can decide whether it is or not when the time comes.

How do you know if this is monetary gain to help the SWA pilots, what if this is about monetary gain to help grease the skids for the AT pilots.

 

[madjack]

Lear Said: In short, SWAPA pilots should definitely benefit from this merger. Protecting your career advancement under the new growth model is something your NC will work out with our MC. Additional compensation is something your NC will be working with your management on.

Lear, the AAI pilots get immediate gains, the SWA pilots merely "lose nothing" how is that fair and equitbable...don't we deserve immediate gains also (not the distant hope of growth and profit sharing which OBTW the former AAI pilots will share)?

 

[Bob Dylan]

The AirTran captains are trying to jam one up in the SWA FO. For good measure they are also trying to break one off in them too. Massive pay gains immediately, then stealing the CA seats from pilots who have been at the better company longer.

Staple is the only fair outcome. Some tranny captains will be pissed, but at least it won't destroy the company.

 

[madjack]

Bob,

We live in a world where M/B rules, I am not suggesting a staple but I would expect to share in the IMMEDIATE gains the AAI pilots will achieve not just "lose nothing"...

 

[Lear70]

They are all getting raises. Pay protect would be less money.

No, they're not. Several of our CA's looked at your pay calculator your union sent. They take a $12k-20k pay CUT to go from AAI 737 CA to SWA 737 F/O, and that's using numbers your union provided.

Not all years of CA's get a pay raise becoming a SWA F/O.

 

[madjack]

Lear,

How much of a raise do the AAI CPs get becoming SWA CPs and what do the SWA FOs with greater longevity get out of the deal?? Can't we all share in the windfall the AAI pilots are getting in this deal...should we share? or do you have to share as per M/B Fair and Equitable standard??

Would the AAI CPs accept pay protection if they became SWA FOs?? They "lose nothing" and may gain better bidding power, QOL, job security, insurance (as per the SWA/SWAPA mailer) etc...As SWA FOs they would be vested in our success and future growth so that they can upgrade and get the big pay raise...or must all that risk be taken by the existing SWA FOs at no cost (and a lot of gain) for the AAI CPs??

 

[redflyer65]

No, they're not. Several of our CA's looked at your pay calculator your union sent. They take a $12k-20k pay CUT to go from AAI 737 CA to SWA 737 F/O, and that's using numbers your union provided.

Not all years of CA's get a pay raise becoming a SWA F/O.

I will admit that I didn't see the packet, but that is completely false..in the most simple of terms using all factual, current data it looks like this..

AAI most senior CA rate 163/hr X 70hr guarantee = 11,410 per month.

SW most senior FO rate 130.24/trip X 87 guarantee = 11,330 per month.

That was as 'straight out of the book' as I can make it. I didn't even open the conversion from TFP to HR can of worms. I understand that both pilots can and sometimes do work more than the minimum, but I just used a simple baseline.

The numbers don't lie, and I didn't skew them. If I used the Sept 26th payrates, it would be even a larger difference.

RF

 

[OldManPilot]

I found the info in the booklet to be direct and helpful. I saw nothing there to get upset about. My wife and I both read the entire thing and found useful information. It took a great deal of time and energy to make each one personal. Thank you SWAPA for sending these out. Again I look forward to the integration.

 

[ASADFW7]

If we both dig in and close our borders as pilot groups we all know AAI has more to not gain then SWA pilots. All further deliveries are going to the SWA side. There is no growth for AAI. The AAI pilots may see the old AAI order list as lost growth, but there are no guarantees in aviation. The SWA pilot group had no growth in prep to buy AAI, yet where does that factor in? Still with no growth AAI is better off being owned by SWA then then old AAI group. The stress of how this will integrate hopefully will soon be lowered. ask spirit, or jet blue if they would rather be owned by SWA than current management, heck ask us airways.

There are 6000 positions outside of the ATL, mco, and mke bases that AAI operates. There are a lot more pieces for AAI to chose from then the AAI current positions. The SWA pilot group already has mco, and mke may close post integration, I do not see hundreds of SWA pilots flooding into ATL over night. I do not care how you slice it, if SWA opens up the borders for AAI pilots out of ATL, that is a big qol gain for aai commuters right there.

 

[Kharma Police]

If we both dig in and close our borders as pilot groups we all know AAI has more to not gain then SWA pilots. All further deliveries are going to the SWA side. There is no growth for AAI. The AAI pilots may see the old AAI order list as lost growth, but there are no guarantees in aviation. The SWA pilot group had no growth in prep to buy AAI, yet where does that factor in? Still with no growth AAI is better off being owned by SWA then then old AAI group. The stress of how this will integrate hopefully will soon be lowered. ask spirit, or jet blue if they would rather be owned by SWA than current management, heck ask us airways.

There are 6000 positions outside of the ATL, mco, and mke bases that AAI operates. There are a lot more pieces for AAI to chose from then the AAI current positions. The SWA pilot group already has mco, and mke may close post integration, I do not see hundreds of SWA pilots flooding into ATL over night. I do not care how you slice it, if SWA opens up the borders for AAI pilots out of ATL, that is a big qol gain for aai commuters right there.

I agree that there might be an exodus of commuters out of ATL, however there will be a huge influx of Southwest FOs who will jump at the opportunity to upgrade in any base available. Commuting to Atlanta from anywhere around the country would be fairly easy and with the number of flights that Gary Kelly has planned out of ATL, lots of potential for captain vacancies.