My Rant on the STUPID & SPINELESS Flight Options Management!

[netjetwife]

Update on my earlier post

...When shopping for a new family vehicle the difference between NJA professional wages and the salary of an underpaid Options pilot really stands out. That is wrong! Professional pilots and their families should be able to buy reliable, comfortable transportation. You guys look at what you're driving. If it's old and has lots of miles that is a very tangible snapshot of how far behind your peers you are.... I know from personal experience the sacrifices frac families make for the pilots to fly. Our frac families deserve decent vehicles. The kind the families of other professionals take for granted.

The FLOPS didn't stop at short-changing pilots' families. They have now taken food off the tables of those they decided to use as pawns in their war against the Options pilots. It's disgusting! I can shop for a new vehicle but those wives have to wonder how the bills are going to be paid. Still, if I were them I'd rather be married to a pilot with guts ...

Shared perspective: I got a very good deal on the Acadia SLT 2 which already has a lot of nice features and the one we're buying has some neat options on top of that. But I'm not entirely thrilled. It aggravates me to think that my counterparts at Options have to miss out on good opportunities because Sheeringa (helped by F&H) is dragging out negotiations and making fellow frac families suffer for his arrogance. You guys are all professionals. One shouldn't be able to tell your place of employment based on your family vehicle. But it does go that way. I remember comparing notes with other NJA wives when our pilots were at the table. Old models with high mileage was the norm. The pilots made similar comments on the message board and swapped commuting stories--like sleeping in the car because they couldn't afford a hotel. I know you Options pilots have similar experiences to share. I'm disgusted on your behalf. Driving a worn out vehicle and scrambling to buy gas is normal for a college student, NOT a professional who is held responsible for lives and planes that cost millions. You are being cheated!

STOP THE EXPLOITATION AT FLIGHTOPS! IT'S TIME TO SETTLE FAIRLY WITH THE PILOTS!
GIVE SHEERINGA THE BOOT!

 

[Semore Butts]

Hahahahaha!!!!!!!

Good one!

For starters..... "Glass" you are right! I have no clue what some of those acronyms are!

I know military ones;

"FUBAR"= B-19 has taken charge.

"SNAFU"= Managment is in control, all is well. Trust us!

FIGMO= "F-U, I got mine"! (This one is a little rare. It's from when you are up to your neck in hassle ad you get re-assigned (being nice here).

F-it! Got my orders! (FIGMO)

Have a nice day!

 

[skanza]

So. Very. Shallow.

Shared perspective: I got a very good deal on the Acadia SLT 2 which already has a lot of nice features and the one we're buying has some neat options on top of that. But I'm not entirely thrilled. It aggravates me to think that my counterparts at Options have to miss out on good opportunities because Sheeringa (helped by F&H) is dragging out negotiations and making fellow frac families suffer for his arrogance. You guys are all professionals. One shouldn't be able to tell your place of employment based on your family vehicle. But it does go that way. I remember comparing notes with other NJA wives when our pilots were at the table. Old models with high mileage was the norm. The pilots made similar comments on the message board and swapped commuting stories--like sleeping in the car because they couldn't afford a hotel. I know you Options pilots have similar experiences to share. I'm disgusted on your behalf. Driving a worn out vehicle and scrambling to buy gas is normal for a college student, NOT a professional who is held responsible for lives and planes that cost millions. You are being cheated!

STOP THE EXPLOITATION AT FLIGHTOPS! IT'S TIME TO SETTLE FAIRLY WITH THE PILOTS!
GIVE SHEERINGA THE BOOT!

Wow. I can't believe how you keep going on about the car you drive! And, how you can afford it due to "professional compensation" of your gold-digger-marrying husband! I really, REALLY don't think anyone here cares about your car anymore than where the next dump they take is going to end up. Please, spare us your materialistic details.
And as far as the compensation issue. Who are you to determine what is the level of compensation for a pilot, and how it's justified? Like all things, the compensation should be born from the market, not the demands of a labor union whose only interest is to supply greedy motherfu(kers with the pay they demand, not necessarily what the job offers.
Yes, pilots have an important responsibility at hand, but so do School Bus drivers and passenger train engineers. Why do you put your children on a bus operated by someone making 35,000? Don't you think if they made 80,000 the kids would be safer? You can't dispute this using your reasoning.

It seems these union coattail riders became pilots for the narcissistic glory and to make a lot of money. But i think a pilot or anyone who does their job well, honest, and without demanding a *hand out will be compensated appropriately in time.

*As far as the hand out thing, I'm not saying accept minimum wage to fly, but don't expect $$$ just because of your ATP.


I know I wouldn't want to be treated by a Doctor who's in it for the money. Kinda seems out of balance, right?

And remember, Flight Options is not Netjets. Different business model, different financing, different culture. So get back in your piece of crap GM and drive over to Columbus where your comments are relevant.

 

[gunfyter]

The Right Stuff

Skanza

You are so way off base you are on another planet.

Here is a proverb:

"Its a long way to the top if you want to Rock-n-Roll."

Bus drivers and RailRoad Engineers do honorable work. We respect that.

I don't know if you are a pilot. I don't know what you do. But I know Pilots. I know the Personal Stories of those who have MADE IT to the TOP.

Let me tell you, it is a LONG WAY. It takes GUTS. Intestinal Fortitude, Endurance, Perseverence, and Determination that most people do not possess or would never expend pursuing a career in Bus or train Driving (tough honorable professions) ... or almost any other career.

You talk about Economics. Reference Adam Smith Wealth of Nations, section on the Wages of labor ... to understand why Pilot Wages need to be much higher than most other professions.

The reason is the RISK in pursuing such a career is HIGH. Any Father can finance and send his son into apprenticeship to pursue a career in Plumbing, bs driving, train driving... and with almost 100% certainty be assured his son will SUCCEED in that education and have a career in that profession.

Not so with Aviation.

FIRST Most people DO NOT have THE RIGHT STUFF to drive a bus ... not many have what it takes to do what we do as Professional Pilots.

Second Even those that have what it takes ... for most of us it was a long hard road to get where we are. I won't repeat the stories I have heard from MANY MANY of my peers on how they finally made it to the place we are at now.

I know that I have suffered and my family has suffered financially and otherwise....

According to Adam Smith ... the wages of labor in professions with high Risk of Failure ... Need to be so high as to have the compensation of those who Succeed include what those who have failed would have earned had they succeeded.

IOW if 1000 try to become pilots but only 200 make it. The wages of pilots should be 5 times the average wage of average workers.

This is what Adam Smith says.


(Book I, Chapter X Of Wages and Profit in the Different mployments of Labour and Stock*1 )

Fifthly, The wages of labour in different employments vary according to the probability or improbability of success in them.*17​

I.10.24The probability that any particular person shall ever be qualified for the employment to which he is educated, is very different in different occupations. In the greater part of mechanic trades, success is almost certain; but very uncertain in the liberal professions. Put your son apprentice to a shoemaker, there is little doubt of his learning to make a pair of shoes: But send him to study the law, it is at least twenty to one if ever he makes such proficiency as will enable him to live by the business. In a perfectly fair lottery, those who draw the prizes ought to gain all that is lost by those who draw the blanks. In a profession where twenty fail for one that succeeds, that one ought to gain all that should have been gained by the unsuccessful twenty. The counsellor at law who, perhaps, at near forty years of age, begins to make something by his profession, ought to receive the retribution, not only of his own so tedious and expensive education, but of that of more than twenty others who are never likely to make any thing by it.​

People who have not lived it ... don't understand it..

and we are sick of people who flippantly disrespect professional pilots with comments like yours ... and by seriously undervaluing the work we do as demonstrated by the deficient wages offered.

 

[netjetwife]

Well said, GF! I'll have to address the FUD later, suffice it to say that Skanza's post is ripe (as in reeking) with examples. I have to go get our new Acadia now. We'll be driving the last vehicle we bought new--a '96 Ford truck with over 180K miles on it. So you see this is a big deal for my family and I'm very much aware that the NJA contract has made it possible...and that many Options pilots who should be able to afford a similar family vehicle can't because their skill is being exploited by the FLOPS.

Fudspinners hate doses of reality, especially those that are easy to relate to.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Skanza

You are so way off base you are on another planet.

Here is a proverb:

"Its a long way to the top if you want to Rock-n-Roll."

Bus drivers and RailRoad Engineers do honorable work. We respect that.

I don't know if you are a pilot. I don't know what you do. But I know Pilots. I know the Personal Stories of those who have MADE IT to the TOP.

Let me tell you, it is a LONG WAY. It takes GUTS. Intestinal Fortitude, Endurance, Perseverence, and Determination that most people do not possess or would never expend pursuing a career in Bus or train Driving (tough honorable professions) ... or almost any other career.

You talk about Economics. Reference Adam Smith Wealth of Nations, section on the Wages of labor ... to understand why Pilot Wages need to be much higher than most other professions.

The reason is the RISK in pursuing such a career is HIGH. Any Father can finance and send his son into apprenticeship to pursue a career in Plumbing, bs driving, train driving... and with almost 100% certainty be assured his son will SUCCEED in that education and have a career in that profession.

Not so with Aviation.

FIRST Most people DO NOT have THE RIGHT STUFF to drive a bus ... not many have what it takes to do what we do as Professional Pilots.

Second Even those that have what it takes ... for most of us it was a long hard road to get where we are. I won't repeat the stories I have heard from MANY MANY of my peers on how they finally made it to the place we are at now.

I know that I have suffered and my family has suffered financially and otherwise....

According to Adam Smith ... the wages of labor in professions with high Risk of Failure ... Need to be so high as to have the compensation of those who Succeed include what those who have failed would have earned had they succeeded.

IOW if 1000 try to become pilots but only 200 make it. The wages of pilots should be 5 times the average wage of average workers.

This is what Adam Smith says.




(Book I, Chapter X Of Wages and Profit in the Different mployments of Labour and Stock*1 )

Fifthly, The wages of labour in different employments vary according to the probability or improbability of success in them.*17​

I.10.24The probability that any particular person shall ever be qualified for the employment to which he is educated, is very different in different occupations. In the greater part of mechanic trades, success is almost certain; but very uncertain in the liberal professions. Put your son apprentice to a shoemaker, there is little doubt of his learning to make a pair of shoes: But send him to study the law, it is at least twenty to one if ever he makes such proficiency as will enable him to live by the business. In a perfectly fair lottery, those who draw the prizes ought to gain all that is lost by those who draw the blanks. In a profession where twenty fail for one that succeeds, that one ought to gain all that should have been gained by the unsuccessful twenty. The counsellor at law who, perhaps, at near forty years of age, begins to make something by his profession, ought to receive the retribution, not only of his own so tedious and expensive education, but of that of more than twenty others who are never likely to make any thing by it.​

People who have not lived it ... don't understand it..

and we are sick of people who flippantly disrespect professional pilots with comments like yours ... and by seriously undervaluing the work we do as demonstrated by the deficient wages offered.

The value of anything is what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Supply and demand.

All the crap above? Useless.

 

[brokeflyer]

The value of anything is what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Supply and demand.

All the crap above? Useless.

sniffle sniffle......im all outta tissues for ya.

your gonna have to wipe your snot on your sleeve haha

 

[gunfyter]

Originally Posted by B19 Flyer
The value of anything is what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Supply and demand.

All the crap above? Useless.

Well now... thats what 1108 is for. To teach "somebody" to be willing to pay what they should for professional pilots.:laugh: We know you're uneducated and haven't read Adam Smith. You will learn though.

 

[dime line]

Skanza, how much should a FLOPS Captain make year 1,5, and 10. In your opinion of course?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Skanza, how much should a FLOPS Captain make year 1,5, and 10. In your opinion of course?

It's whatever the business plan is designed to pay for success and longevity of the company. That was easy.