My "pilot Deviation" At Dfw (don't Do This)

[Leroy Smith]

ATL stopped doing RNAVs properly quite a long time ago because there were so many deviations (even with the first fix verification)!


There are those who have and those who will.....


?Got Union?

 

[Instinct]

Thank you for posting this. We can spend our whole career making all the mistakes in the world, or we can learn from others...

 

[ATRCA]

In my opinion RNAV departures are a WIN for ATC and a BUST for pilots. Departure separation was an ATC function. They directed the flow of traffic out and in and took responsibility for separtaion. Now they wash their hands of it, give it to us and the let the violations fly!! Now on top of everyithing else, we pilots have to navigate our way out of some of the busiest airports in the country. I have done plenty of RNAV departures without incident. It only takes one and .......your busted.....

How many times have you gotten busted while being vectored during departure. NONE! Dump this important task on our shoulders and you can get into trouble.

 

[Starscream]

This sh!t can be done safely, we just need proper guidance/training/procedures! I've been doing RNAV DEPs for about a year or so, and I received my first formal training on it only last week! It's not that hard or demanding, it just requires layers of protection, like almost every other part of our operation. It's up to the fleet managers/training depts/technical directors/etc. to see to it that these layers of protection become SOP. In the meantime.............be careful out there boys and girls........

 

[flyer172r]

From the few airports that seem to be using RNAV departures, it seems that DFW is the only one that doesn't assign a heading when clearing you for takeoff, they just assume you're going to proceed direct to the first fix on your departure.

I'm sure there are other airports out there that assume the same thing, but DFW's the only one I've been to. ATL and IAH both assign a heading.

 

[ATRCA]

This sh!t can be done safely, we just need proper guidance/training/procedures! I've been doing RNAV DEPs for about a year or so, and I received my first formal training on it only last week! It's not that hard or demanding, it just requires layers of protection, like almost every other part of our operation. It's up to the fleet managers/training depts/technical directors/etc. to see to it that these layers of protection become SOP. In the meantime.............be careful out there boys and girls........

I agree, the problem is when you add poor wx, delays, runway changes, the list goes on. It is very easy to blow this one.

 

[Starscream]

Very true, but the same goes for approaches. We could just as easily brief the wrong approach, and join the localizer for the wrong runway, etc., but since the guidance for approach briefings, instrument/radios setting/cross checking, etc. has become more well defined over time, incidents involving flying an approach to the wrong runway have decreased. Look at international flying. Different tranition altitudes/levels in most countries in the world, yet procedures have been developed that minimize (of course not eliminate) the number of alitude deviations by all internation carriers operating outside their home countries. I fly out of NYC mostly (convential nav/vector departures), and believe me, I don't have any sort of fatuation with RNAV SIDs. I just feel that this initiative is still in its infancy, and that safe and practical operating procedures can be developed for this, as well.

 

[Bullitt]

inthegoo,

Just wanted to say good luck with everything and I appreciate you posting your experience on this forum. Everyone can most certainly learn from something like this.

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

LAX does the RNAV departure thing too. They're still asking to verify the first fix.

 

[brokeflyer]

Dont feel bad...your not a real pilot until you had the FAA up your ass 3 or 4 times in your career......