Moving up to management

[HeavyjetDC8]

BTW to expect any reasonalbe answers on this site is not realistic. Here management and the anti-christ are the same thing.

Actually, the Antichrist is held in higher esteem.

 

[pilotyip]

Dose of reality

The Exec making 500k in the corner office. There is a reason the exec has the corner office and 500K on the W-2. But even the exec is still working for someone else.



If they're smart and at the top of their careers, they are at home with their families, enjoying their time with their families. If not, and working their way up the ladder, they might be at home, but working. I know of very few execs that take holidays, weekends, and other such days 100% off. Even when off, the brain is still working away at solving whatever crisis or dreaming up some new long term idea to grow the company.


It would be a stretch to have none of the pilots show up. Most likely it'd be a bunch of retirees, management pilots, and others that would run a barebones schedule until the airline folded, thus the pilots would not have anywhere to show up to. The pilots would start over at the bottom of the list elsewhere with the corresponding loss of the income, and the execs would find themselves at a similar level or promoted elsewhere with a similar or higher level of income.


Not enough. :beer:

Of course I don't like either pilot or exec position, I'd rather be CEO.

What a lovely dose of reality, but you find it does not fit here, this a pilot centered site.

 

[Longhorn]

Did the moderators remove some comments on this thread? Why?

My bad, I meant to delete another thread for some inappropriate comments made. I clicked on the wrong post. I did not realize that I checked on yours...taken care of.

 

[pilotyip]

Airline Management is a tuff job

This is repeat but if fits here. This is a pilot board so saying anything in defense of management is like peeing into the wind, that it is going to come back to you. CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done. Top management includes many besides the CEO, the CEO sets direction as requested by the board. The CEO has little control over the airline, the airline is run by regulation and union contracts. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity. There is little they can do inside their structure. Other high paid top management personnel, in Operations, Maintenance. Marketing, Legal, Finance, etc. have unique skills in dealing with large organizations. This makes them marketable when shopping for a job, unlike pilots whose skills are nearly universal. An issue of ATW in 2002 had an article about “Airline Management a dying breed”, the article basically said no one wants to do it. The good track record CEO’s are going to other industries. With tremendous, payrolls, overhead burdens, and extremely low margins, there is no tried and true path to success. Most have tried to increase market share, but this has lead to low price and ridiculous breakeven load factors in 95% range. What is management supposed to do? Eliminating management will bring the end quicker for the airplane industry, and their salaries are insignificant to the airlines operating costs. Without management you could not operate the airline, The FAA would shut it down without approved Part 119 key management. Would the pilots step up and become management for free in their spare time? Why is it every time, pilot salaries come up, they are immediately compared to top management. I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy. Top management possesses skills that allow them to move from job to job and command high salaries. And every one of these managers wants to see his/her airline prosper. They just can not do it.

 

[PCL_128]

They didn't teach you how to write in paragraphs or how to spell when you got that fancy MBA degree?

 

[Dude]

Flight ops departments do not run themselves. I know, just ask management and they'll tell you. Seriously, it is a noble thing to take up: a desk, countless meetings, an enormous budget, middle-of-the-night phone calls, the FAA, SBOAs, hiring, firing, office politics, political correctness at its apex, gaining 25 lbs., drinking more heavily, knowing that every line pilot thinks you're a buffoon and he could do it better, lower paying, working 5+ extra days a month position in management.

Given the job description, you are either unmarried, very amitious, very motivated, OCD, a glutton, miserable, brilliant, or really passionate about enforcing change in an industry that desperately needs it. If you are the later and can do the job and remain intelletually honest and quit the day you have to compromise; then I say, BRAVO and go for it. If not, DO NOT attempt it. Management has important positions to fill and unfortunately, they are filled with self-promoting turds with rare exception.

Good Luck!

 

[KigAir]

CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done.

Which is in contrast to the workerbees(pilots, mechanics...) who would rather see their Company fold than negotiate.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Yes, kind of like politics-most normal people don't have the stomach for it. Your observation about being subverted, fired, or resigning is very keen.

One order of Colin Powell -- coming right up!

 

[pilotyip]

They didn't teach you how to write in paragraphs or how to spell when you got that fancy MBA degree?

That is unfair you knowq I can;t speel. BTW I did not know you were my 2nd grade grammar teacher, you still take your teeth out at night?

 

[LJDRVR]

I am thinking about getting an MBA and could see doing that if I was able.

Thanks.

Please don't take this as an insult, but here's my take:

That you view moving to management as "up" is troubling to say the least. If you have aspirations to be an executive, don't waste your time wrangling airplanes. If you're a pilot, fly the line.

The fact that you are posting on FI for advice on how to become an executive at an airline shows you are likely:

• Not smart enough to make that transition anyway

or...​

• Flaimbait

If your question was serious, what the hell are you asking us morons for? Unless Bill Compton is on FI, nobody here has ever made that jump.

Seriously, what conversation are you going to have with your wife?

"Sweetie, the guys on FI say that Masters Degree is a sure fire fast track to CEO! I'm calling DeVry today!"

My sincere apologies (really) if your question was serious, this just isn't the venue.

Ask your CEO. (Just make sure your ID badge is hidden when you do it.)

Best of luck...

 

[PCL_128]

That is unfair you knowq I can;t speel. BTW I did not know you were my 2nd grade grammar teacher, you still take your teeth out at night?

Yet more proof of the ignorance of incompetence of management. You would think someone in a fancy management office could at least spell simple words.

 

[Redmeat]

Yet more proof of the ignorance of incompetence of management. You would think someone in a fancy management office could at least spell simple words.

There ain't no "fancy" offices on Willow Run Airport.

TRUST ME.

Not even at the FSDO.

The place has become a dump and is literally right next to one. But that's the state of Michigan in a nut shell.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

It sounds to me like you want to be home every night and fly when you feel like flying. I recommend you get the MBA, get a desk job outside of aviation that actually pays well, and fly for fun on the side.

If you want to fly, then fly. If you want to manage, then manage.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Paint your nose brown & and insert it into the "up lock" position.... formulate plan to screw some more change out of the employees and you should be golden!
uke:
oh yeah, buy stock in Bayer and [SIZE=-1]Pfizer Pharmaceuticals [/SIZE]because you will be consuming you fair share of aspirin and rolaids.........

R-O-L-A-I-D-S Spells Relief®

 

[Captzaahlie]

Flight ops departments do not run themselves. I know, just ask management and they'll tell you. Seriously, it is a noble thing to take up: a desk, countless meetings, an enormous budget, middle-of-the-night phone calls, the FAA, SBOAs, hiring, firing, office politics, political correctness at its apex, gaining 25 lbs., drinking more heavily, knowing that every line pilot thinks you're a buffoon and he could do it better, lower paying, working 5+ extra days a month position in management.

Given the job description, you are either unmarried, very amitious, very motivated, OCD, a glutton, miserable, brilliant, or really passionate about enforcing change in an industry that desperately needs it. If you are the later and can do the job and remain intelletually honest and quit the day you have to compromise; then I say, BRAVO and go for it. If not, DO NOT attempt it. Management has important positions to fill and unfortunately, they are filled with self-promoting turds with rare exception.

Good Luck!

Dunster is that u?

 

[BlueBusDriver]

Up?

Did he say "moving UP to managment"?
I guess I've never thought of it as a move "UP".

 

[bravodude]

They didn't teach you how to write in paragraphs or how to spell when you got that fancy MBA degree?

Just like they didnt teach you to stand up to mgt. the verry people you are bashing here and say no to charging peole $35 to ride the jumpseat.

 

[Kharma Police]

Just like they didnt teach you to stand up to mgt. the verry people you are bashing here and say no to charging peole $35 to ride the jumpseat.

We are not charging anymore dude. Too bad you won't be able to staple us!

 

[mamba20]

But would imagine you would give up pay and days off to come into the management ranks.

Right up until the point where its raped off the hard work of the employees, while he's out playing golf.

 

[pilotyip]

you have no idea

But would imagine you would give up pay and days off to come into the management ranks.

Right up until the point where its raped off the hard work of the employees, while he's out playing golf.

You have obliviously never been airline middle management. Maybe CEO's go out and play golf. The rest of us work 50-60 hours a week mostly 6 days to keep the airline running. On call 24 hrs a day to answer questions, resolve issues and give guidance to crewmembers that do not understand the GOM. My idea of a fun day out of the office is getting out and flying. BTW Flying an airplane for a living is a great job and I am envious of every one of you that gets to do that for a living.

 

[PCL_128]

You have obliviously never been airline middle management.

Naw, unlike you, he has too much integrity for that.

 

[MINIME]

I know I don't have alot of respect for most management types, but Pilotyip doesn't strike me as someone who's intentionally out to screw his pilots. For those that are somewhat attacking him, I think he's gutsy for even admitting he's management.

Not all management types are equal. I have a real problem with those that try to enrich themselves, elevate themselves to upper management by screwing his fellow employees. We all know who those types are within our own boundaries.

 

[pilotyip]

lost soles

Naw, unlike you, he has too much integrity for that.

You truly are one of those lost soles in the flying world that still thinks that skill and desire are more important than luck and timing. In 1982 at 39, you would be unemployed, in 1992 at age 49, you would be unemployed, and in 2002 at age 59 you would be lucky to find a job anywhere, one must take care of their family. I am truly lucky to be here, it has been an adventure, I think I would change little.

 

[PCL_128]

You truly are one of those lost soles

Lost "soles?" No, all of my shoes have their soles intact. Or were you trying to spell lost souls? I gess hookd on foniks didunt werk for yu.

 

[pilotyip]

speelied

Lost "soles?" No, all of my shoes have their soles intact. Or were you trying to spell lost souls? I gess hookd on foniks didunt werk for yu.

Hey it is sppelied corrctly what else do you want, you are one of those guys who is never happy, always whining, always bitching, you have to look at the bright, which I know is impossible for you, but you are alive, you have great job, and so much for which to be thankful.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Hey it is sppelied corrctly what else do you want, you are one of those guys who is never happy, always whining, always bitching, you have to look at the bright, which I know is impossible for you, but you are alive, you have great job, and so much for which to be thankful.

Pilotyip I got your point the first time so what does a "typo" really matter?

PEE_C_HELL128, What does it matter if the dude wants to be management and cant spell, hell I want to write a book one day and I can't spell, nor can I seem to not create the worlds longest run on sentences!

Sometimes I type something out 'on the run' via my tiny Treo's keyboard and I don't have a spell checker available to me. BFD! I'm just so glad (insert sarcasm here) there is someone like PCl_128 around to point out the obvious to us.... (end sarcasm) I get tried of the constant bitching in this industry too, sometimes I just want to take up an collection for the crybabies and see if [FONT=TREBUCHET, ARIAL, HELVETICA]Dr. Jack Kevorkian[/FONT] is available to help you guys out......................

Now here's my attempt to brighten things up a bit:

Do you know what is long black and hangs in front of an ash*le?

A Captain's necktie.....

No wonder FA's , gate agents, hotel van drivers, and FO's think that joke is funny. We have sooooo many disgruntled, negative [SIZE=-1]"prima donnas" [/SIZE] running around thinking things are owed to them and their stuff doesn't stink because they are airline pilots!
:angryfire

 

[Redmeat]

Do you know what is long black and hangs in front of an ash*le?

A Captain's necktie.....

I love that one. My wife always uses this one on me, hehe:

Do you know what pilots use for birth control?

Their personalities.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Dp!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Captzaahlie]

I love that one. My wife always uses this one on me, hehe:

Do you know what pilots use for birth control?

Their personalities.

I know the joke below isn't true because I married a "sky goddess"!

What is the difference between a flight attendant and a limousine?
​

Not everyone has been in a limo before!
:laugh:
​

 

[jke406]

Lost "soles?" No, all of my shoes have their soles intact. Or were you trying to spell lost souls? I gess hookd on foniks didunt werk for yu.

Spoken like a true union stooge.