More than 50% of UPS pilots are idiots!!!

[psysicx]

30K for starting pay is a start.

 

[ERJ Jay]

So where can we download a full copy of the TA?
Contract 98 was on the web, where's this one?

 

[Munga]

Yeah, I just saw the starting pay. That is low in this day and age. But the old guys there don't care abou the noobies - no one ever does. So what else?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yeah, I just saw the starting pay. That is low in this day and age. But the old guys there don't care abou the noobies - no one ever does. So what else?

I think you are wrong. A LOT of people cared. Unfortunately, the union said the company was adamant about this and would not budge. They said they have more than enough people willing to come to UPS and work for this. What can I say? I did it for $26K. It's not right but it is what it is.

 

[Browntothebone]

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=4698&page=9

Post number 90 is a start, except there is more to item 1. (I think what they negotiated is acceptable).


Dude,
Grow some balls. You might think your living the dream now, but after this contract gets approved (due in part because UPS bought your ass for 40 grand) you'll be displaced to the Intl side of the house and then you'll get your 1000 hours a freaking year... Oh yeah, the Reserves will start to fly more as well since there will be absolutely NO hiring...

Here are some of the negatives that you can look forward to:

1. A 3 HOUR COST if you chose to travel differently than scheduled.
Is this better than what we have? Why would we accept or need this
change?

2. SICK LEAVE bank increase of 10 hrs per year up to 148 hrs. Why ¡s this in there other than to save the company money on the sick buyback.

3. NO PREMIUM for open-time or lines built above 75 hrs. This is directly related to our staffing shortfalls. This was heavily discussed before. What
happened to the 125% pay over 75, or open-time at 150%? This was to
ensure that they staffed properly.

4. IPA EB cannot even mention an Open-time Ban or No JAs, (13K9?)
who agreed to this? A lawyer will tell you that this is like asking
for a lawsuit against us in the future. Remember the APA and 45 million
what did we gain to allow this in. The company must love this addition.

5. NO change in IOE or INSTRUCTOR overrides. In fact, it was even forgotten
to be even written in, article 10 sends you to 12, 12 sends you back
to 10. Great work!.

6. The percentage of instruction done by Non-IPA instructors goes up,
and that opens the door to MORE MANAGEMENT PILOTS!

7. NO change in the pay for REPORT AND RELEASE times. How many times
have you been able to show up for a CML ticket and made it within the
1 hr that you are being paid for? How many times have you made
it off the property to the lot, or to the hotel, within the 15 mins
that you are paid for? With the security requirements at the airports, a 2 hr show is almost too little. And the hotel van is rarely their
when you walk out, or the hotel is 45 mins away ¡V or more internationally.

8. VACATION on days off are still only worth 3 hrs of pay?

9. Major loss of SUMMER vacations ¡s another huge staffing plus for
the company.

10. The A PLAN is still 1% - what happened to the 1.25% - or MORE IMPORTANTLY the higher B PLAN percentage to balance up for the flat dollar amount for those about to retire?

11. B PLAN ¡s up to the legal limits. Does this mean we no longer
get the difference cut in check form to us? In other words is 12% really
12% or is is 9-10% if you make a lot that year?

12. Huge family MEDICAL COSTS increase over life of the contract that
eats away directly into your raise, especially at the end.

13. With a VACATION DROP, it is now legal for the company to create Dummy
leg/DH to get you back on the trio as soon as possible after your vacation.
In other words, plan to only have exactly your vacation time off.

14. A MEMBER ON RESERVE who is called out for a trip, then has the trip
cancelled, will go right back on reserve for the rest of the current
reserve period. i.e. you head back to the crashpad, or home, only to
be called out again 2 hrs later.

15. We now MUST CHECK IN for sched DH whether we use it or not.

16. Instructors must work an additional 2 days for free and no increase in "incentive" pay.

17. Sleep facilities and CMS2 to come (which is great) but the company has two (2) years to get it done. Look what happened with Menlo, do you think the company will make your sleep room a priority? Also, the TA says that the company will make an attempt to convert exsisting facilties at out stations and provide sleep rooms. how many out station facilities have you been to that had room for a sleep room? This aint FedEx, UPS uses $hitholes at al their out stations. (key word is attempt, not legally binding and requires not specific action)

18. Sub standard pay to FedEx.

Did you actually read this thing???


BBDC8

 

[Aviator7576]

changes

Browntothebone...

That list is not very accurate or truthful.

1. 3 hrs loss on edw trips only if you don't position on Sunday. They don't want to pay you if you're really not working.

2. Sick leave bank increase HELPS us...talk to some folks who have been out on extended medicals...they want more rather than less.

3. The OT gets picked up at 100%; why should the company pay more. One advantage is there actually might be something there longer if you need to trade. You make it worth more, it's gone in a flash.

4. OT/JA bans are illegal during negotiations anyway (self help during status quo). The union can and has asked the membership for 100% (for those not too obtuse to follow).

5. Yup...those guys didn't get a raise. That was probably not on the top ten list for the nc. If you don't want to work in the training center, don't. If the pay isn't enough, go back to the line and fly with the rest of us. Someone will want to do that job.

6. There is a baseline for minimum IPA instructors now; there was none before.

7. I wish I could make the hotel vans run on time. Report time for rsv starts at the parking lot card reader. For those who wish to travel as scheduled, show up one hour prior; if you don't make it, let it be a ups problem, not yours.

8. I wish it went to 4 but if you want more hiring, you want people to conflict their vacations. You make each day worth six, no one bids on days on....they grab the bucks instead.

9. Yes, we lost some summer vacation (from 10% to 8%). Federal minimum is a lot less than 8% in the summer.

10. A plan is 1% up to $300k now vice $150k and on total w2 instead of guarantee.

11. B plan takes us close to legal limits. If you do extra work, you may not get the payout that just a few individuals got previously.

12. Medical costs went up but still less than federal has now and all other airlines. I would like free medical too, but we kept the coverages and the copays and free generics and free mailorder stuff.

13. Yup..they got us there...right now they will truncate trips and backfill. This way they can actually make you fly a trip you bid to fly when it's not your vacation. This is more an intl issue for dropping a 2 wk trip with one wk of vacation.

14. Right now, if your a called out reserve and your trip cancels, they keep you there for hot stby. They don't release you (unless you know the scheduler). At least now I can go home or to my pad and sleep there.

15. Yes, that is a loss for us. They want to make sure that for our initial dh for a trip, someone will actually be there to fly it. Blame people who no show or couldn't read their schedules for this one.

16. Talk to sim instructors. The one I talked to said he will have to give less days before he can make more money. He seemed satisfied by the changes if not thrilled with no pay increase.

17. Yes, they get too much time to give us beds...I am shocked they would allow us beds to begin with, with the ups mentality (I'm not paying you when you sleep). Incidentally, I don't believe federal gets paid while they are in their mem sort (correct me if I'm wrong please).

18. Our pay was $190 hour for all fleets; we are now $223.55 for all fleets. Federal was $206 for wb; they go to $224.80 for wb. Looks to me like we caught up. Narrow pay is not even close, although it may get you an earlier upgrade. With our higher monthly guarantee and 13 months, our guaranteed salary will be more than federals. They do get more for draft and volunteer but I would like to get the most for doing the least.

Overall, we had some gains and some losses. Knowing now what the vote was, it's probably a good thing it was voted in. If we went back with a marginal no vote, the deck chairs would be rearranged and we would wait several months longer for little gain overall. And some people would still be complaining about their pet peeves.

Hope this helps..

JMO

Aviator7576

 

[capt. megadeth]

Well said Aviator7576. I like people that are realistic.

 

[Captain Oveur]

Some people are never happy
Sheesh....

 

[ERJ Jay]

And some people would still be complaining about their pet peeves.

So true!
While the UPS contract may not be all that, I dare you to look at:
CAL
DAL
NWA
UAL
Alaska
US Air/AWA

While no contarct may be perfect, some are more perfect than others.


P.S. First year pay is terrible at every major, regional, and fractional job. If you're worring about one year out of 15-25 years with a company, you're being very short sighted!

 

[Aviator7576]

ERJ...

I agree with you. There are, however, a lot of pilots here the look at pre 9/11 dal and ual and say this is what our rates have to be. I think absent 9/11 we would be higher than dal and ual, but clearly, the market has changed.

JMO

Aviator7576