More than 50% of UPS pilots are idiots!!!

[GogglesPisano]

P.S. First year pay is terrible at every major, regional, and fractional job. !

Not true. Check out Jetblue. And Fedex. And Delta (when they eventually hire.) I know, the second year pay is higher at UPS than the pax carriers (by a longshot.)

But your statement is false.

 

[ERJ Jay]

Not true. Check out Jetblue. And Fedex. And Delta (when they eventually hire.) I know, the second year pay is higher at UPS than the pax carriers (by a longshot.)

But your statement is false.

My statement is a simplistic, generic, generalization. Nothing more (have you seen what CAL pays their new hires?)

Jetblue = EMB 190 FO/CA for life!
They've hired what 2000 ex-RJ drivers in their 30s! +/- some ex-A320 drivers from the majors. There will be almost no movement at Jetblue for 15-20 years. The only thing geting you out of the FO seat is growth. At 70/barrel, I'd like to see it.

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11). When you look at earning over a 20-25 carrer, I'd say they're about even. +/- if you pick up those disputed trips - which I know no one would admit to doing.

DAL, lets see. In BK, going to be in BK for a while. When you get a soild company that will not fold/merge/crumble/ or terminate your pensions - we'll compare big brown with big D.

Is the UPS contract perfect.

No.

No contract is.

They could have paid new hires 10 times more, and then out sourced all international flying.

Would that be better? I say no. Sometimes, job protections and quality of life improvemnets are worth more over the long term than an extra dollar or two in the short term.

Then again, I'm biased. I want to work for Brown.

 

[ERJ Jay]

Not true. Check out Jetblue. And Fedex. And Delta (when they eventually hire.) I know, the second year pay is higher at UPS than the pax carriers (by a longshot.)

But your statement is false.

My statement is a simplistic, generic, generalization. Nothing more (have you seen what CAL pays their new hires?)

Jetblue = EMB 190 FO/CA for life!
They've hired what 2000 ex-RJ drivers in their 30s! +/- some ex-A320 drivers from the majors. There will be almost no movement at Jetblue for 15-20 years. The only thing geting you out of the FO seat is growth. At 70/barrel, I'd like to see it.

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11). When you look at earning over a 20-25 carrer, I'd say they're about even. +/- if you pick up those disputed trips - which I know no one would admit to doing.

DAL, lets see. In BK, going to be in BK for a while. When you get a soild company that will not fold/merge/crumble/ or terminate your pensions - we'll compare big brown with big D.

Is the UPS contract perfect.

No.

No contract is.

They could have paid new hires 10 times more, and then outsourced all international flying.

If you're comparing it to a pre sept 11 contract at Delta of UAL, I challenge you to get a job at a pre sept 11 company with their pre sept 11 contract. When you do please call me, I still can't find it's mailing address.

Would that be better? I say no. Sometimes, job protections and quality of life improvemnets are worth more over the long term than an extra dollar or two in the short term.

Then again, I'm biased. I want to work for Brown.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Jetblue = EMB 190 FO/CA for life!
There will be almost no movement at Jetblue for 15-20 years.

Wow. Do the guys at JetBlue know that?

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11).

I read on Flightinfo that FedEx is hiring into the -11 in ANC. I'm not sure how long you have to "hold out" for that. But then again, it is Flightinfo.

 

[PositionandHold]

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11). When you look at earning over a 20-25 carrer, I'd say they're about even. +/- if you pick up those disputed trips - which I know no one would admit to doing...

Then again, I'm biased. I want to work for Brown.

Then learn how to spell "career." There's a reason these guys want college degrees.

 

[Aviator7576]

career

Position and Hold..

Maybe he was trying to say carrera...I would take any carrera even one 20 yrs old...even older if it's Tia Carrera....

Dreaming...

Aviator7576

 

[PositionandHold]

Position and Hold..

Maybe he was trying to say carrera...I would take any carrera even one 20 yrs old...even older if it's Tia Carrera....

Dreaming...

Aviator7576

True. And the first 1/3 or 1/2 of Tia Carrera isn't bad, either.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Maybe 50% of UPS pilots are idiots. But 100% of UPS pilots enjoy one of the highest levels of compensation in aviation, along with retirement, QOL and job security that is almost unheard of in the airline business. If ratifying a contract that provides for all of that makes one an "idiot," then just about every pilot I know is an idiot.

I have a friend who's a stockbroker. He's fond of saying "Pigs eat well, but hogs go to slaughter." One could argue that developments in recent years have already seen some "hogs" turned into sausage.

 

[sandman2122]

So what will UPS pay if/when they receive the A380 - same as a 727??

That's a huge loss for you guys IMO.

 

[TheBaron]

My statement is a simplistic, generic, generalization. Nothing more (have you seen what CAL pays their new hires?)

Jetblue = EMB 190 FO/CA for life!
They've hired what 2000 ex-RJ drivers in their 30s! +/- some ex-A320 drivers from the majors. There will be almost no movement at Jetblue for 15-20 years. The only thing geting you out of the FO seat is growth. At 70/barrel, I'd like to see it.

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11). When you look at earning over a 20-25 carrer, I'd say they're about even. +/- if you pick up those disputed trips - which I know no one would admit to doing.

DAL, lets see. In BK, going to be in BK for a while. When you get a soild company that will not fold/merge/crumble/ or terminate your pensions - we'll compare big brown with big D.

Is the UPS contract perfect.

No.

No contract is.

They could have paid new hires 10 times more, and then out sourced all international flying.

Would that be better? I say no. Sometimes, job protections and quality of life improvemnets are worth more over the long term than an extra dollar or two in the short term.

Then again, I'm biased. I want to work for Brown.

Not sure where you got your info on being stuck in the narrow body. If you were hired at the end of the postal boom, you may have had to sit as an F/E for 2-3 years (if you didn't want to go to ANC.) For the last 1 1/2 years, and for the foreseeable future, upgrades to the MD or Airbus fleet are very quick. Even those that pass on ANC as a new hire will have the opportunity to bid wide-body sometime in their first couple of years. Hardly 1/3 to 1/2 your career.

 

[Corona]

So true!
While the UPS contract may not be all that, I dare you to look at:
CAL
DAL
NWA
UAL
Alaska
US Air/AWA

While no contarct may be perfect, some are more perfect than others.

However, every airline you mention here is a passenger carrier. They are in no way related to the cargo-carrier industry. It was yet another victory for Management, this time at UPS, to link the compensation comparison between the two.

Pilots, or any other employee, need to be paid for their productivity; ie, how much money they make for their company.

UPS pilots make their company many, many times what pax airline pilots bring in, and should be compensated accordingly. Too bad.

C

 

[av8trix]

What??

FedEx, hasn't approved their contract. Until they do so (which I admit they probably will) we have to deal with the fact that you're stuck on small Narrow body (727) for the first 1/3-1/2 half of your carrer (FE then FO then CA - unless you hold out for the MD10/11).

Dude, what are you talking about??? No one is stuck on narrow body at FedEx. My husband was off that A/C in less than a year!

 

[capt. megadeth]

However, every airline you mention here is a passenger carrier. They are in no way related to the cargo-carrier industry. It was yet another victory for Management, this time at UPS, to link the compensation comparison between the two.

Pilots, or any other employee, need to be paid for their productivity; ie, how much money they make for their company.

UPS pilots make their company many, many times what pax airline pilots bring in, and should be compensated accordingly. Too bad.

C

The problem is is that when the legacy carriers were doing great, the company didn't want to compare but the pilots did. When the legacy carriers were not doing well, the company wanted to compare but the pilots didn't. The company wants to have it both ways but so do the pilots and that just ain't gonna happen.

 

[Browntothebone]

What you say is mostly correct, but your reasoning is a little off. UPS wants it both ways, and since a majority of the pilots voted yes, they got what they wanted. The key is comparison to companies that mirror your own financial state. UPS was making money when the passenger airlines were doing well, and they are making even more now. Remember when you vote on the next contract in 2013 0r 2014 (yes, after a 3 year delay) that you were tricked in 2006.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Remember when you vote on the next contract in 2013 0r 2014 (yes, after a 3 year delay) that you were tricked in 2006.

I'm sure we'll be fixing crap from this one.

 

[psysicx]

Does UPS have a 24hr reserve call out?

 

[Green Baron 737]

Psysicx: Yes they do. UPS have Reserve call in for night and day reserve (CA and CP respectively) They go pretty junior as they are usually used to disperse open time and usually get called before the short call guys get called. There are some guys that work the system very well and have it down to a fine science and dodge the flying while on 24 hour call in. Don't ask me how they do it.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Pilots, or any other employee, need to be paid for their productivity; ie, how much money they make for their company.

So, when your gardner comes to you and says, "Hey, I hear you got a big raise. Congratulations! But since I'M the guy who mows your lawn, thus allowing you to be gone 16 days a month, I figure I ought to get one of those "signing bonuses" too. In fact, since I should have raised my rates 3 years ago but didn't, I want an immediate "signing bonus" of say, 25% of what I billed you last year, in addition to an increase of 10% on future billing. I don't CARE what other gardners in the neighborhood make. This is what I want. You're a rich airline pilot, you can afford it."

If you really believe that how much money you make should be a factor in how much you pay for services, you'd agree to his request for an increase in his rates and write him a check to compensate him for all the years he didn't get a raise.

If it were me, I'd be looking for a new gardner...

 

[ptarmigan]

So, when your gardner comes to you and says, "Hey, I hear you got a big raise. Congratulations! But since I'M the guy who mows your lawn, thus allowing you to be gone 16 days a month, I figure I ought to get one of those "signing bonuses" too. In fact, since I should have raised my rates 3 years ago but didn't, I want an immediate "signing bonus" of say, 25% of what I billed you last year, in addition to an increase of 10% on future billing. I don't CARE what other gardners in the neighborhood make. This is what I want. You're a rich airline pilot, you can afford it."

If you really believe that how much money you make should be a factor in how much you pay for services, you'd agree to his request for an increase in his rates and write him a check to compensate him for all the years he didn't get a raise.

If it were me, I'd be looking for a new gardner...

Just fire him for sleeping with your wife!

 

[psysicx]

24 hr call out wouldn't be bad since you could commute. Are you seat locked or can you bid to another jet right away?