More Delta Trouble

[Dizel8]

Gen. Lee says: "I don't know, do you?"

Since you do not know, his assesment is as valid as yours and I got to say, for someone who doesn't know much, you sure act like you know better than every one.

It will be interesting to see how much is offered, if DAL tries to spin off DCI or better yet Song, the breadwinner in the family. Maybe then we WILL know!

 

[enigma]

There are still options DL can do, like selling DCI, pay cuts for the non-union employees (no negotiating necessary), etc. This is becoming old news. The fuel issues has been talked about before. We just added fuel surcharges, and Grinstein can't really jump up and down about them sticking because we are still lobbying Congress for pension help. All doom and gloom for the near term I am sure.

What is the burn rate per day after the fuel surcharges came into effect? I don't know, do you? No assets after that? How about that new $400 million BOS terminal we just paid for? How about JFK? How about those untapped non-union people that can be GIVEN pay cuts with no say----that is most of our employees? We don't have any room huh? We are on our way to cutting $5 billion A YEAR in savings, and we need the "room" to get there. We also will probably get pension savings from Congress---which could amount to hundreds of millions of dollars a year in savings---just around the corner or the PBGC will be slammed again. It is just a matter of time, and selling DCI will give us that time.


Anon,

What are you talking about? Another 30% to survive? What? I can't see it getting that high, no way. I can see the non-union people losing another 10-15%, and then heavy maintenance will be wiped away in favor of outsourcing (what everyone else is doing), and other major changes. If Congress doesn't help with the pensions, I think they will go away too, which is fine with me since I have 20 years to go. (age 60 retirement) I think most people can see that too. Also, if those pensions are a target, I can see many more pilots leaving.

General, this post disappoints me greatly. You are one of the last people that I would expect to be calling for employee pay cuts. And the last highlighted quote about pensions going away, ARE YOU SERIOUS? .....................I must be misunderstanding your words.

Help me out, are you advocating that DAL needs to cut pay and benefits to survive?

enigma

 

[Dizel8]

It appears, thast the General is indeed fine with anything that does mot affect him too badly. He mentions that non unions paycuts and the loss of the retirement is fine with him.

"How about those untapped non-union people that can be GIVEN pay cuts with no say?"

Spoken like true management!

Here I thought, that the General wanted the best for all, guess I was mistaken!

 

[climbhappy]

I'm no accountant, but if the company has 27 bil in debt, and the market capitalization is low, then maybe the debt to equity ratio is of concern. But Delta's brand, its INT'L routes and size don't make it a candidate for the scrap heap.

but rather Delta will refinance their way out of it, and when a few weaker rivals go under the fares will rise, profitibility returns and the market value will sky rocket back into the 20's and 30's. that 27 billion will be of no more significance.

 

[mnboyev]

I commend Delta !... They got rid of the Nice coffee cups in business for S-Foam, that will save em big dough... Oh... and the pillows are gone too... at least from what I hear. Saving big !!

You D boys have a good product... dont let em take it apart. You cant charge high Simpler fares and not give the folks some bones dude !!

Its sad... where is all this crap gonna end... And I dont want to hear its AirTran's fault... we only have 80 some jets... Comair, ASA are all larger airlines... so we are not the enemy with the Green penny pinchin tail.

Cut out the bureaucrats jobs !! Desk pushers.... NWA did it... NOW its big Deltas turn.... Dont let em run it to bankruptcy so they can put a big line through your contracts.

Cut the jobs from the Ivory tower Delta... Clean house and save big. Too much waste at the Legacy carriers.. Its finally catching up..

 

[Tim47SIP]

What a ride!

It seems clearly evident that Delta is going after two things. It needs relief from the pension fund which is huge, and additional employee cost cuts. Look for BK to do just that. Mainline guys will take it in the shorts again with the rest of us in the 10-15% area. Delta will make it, but it wont be Delta as we know it when it comes out the other end.

 

[skykid]

Its sad... where is all this crap gonna end...

My crystal ball says in 15 years LCCs will dominate domestic travel. A few, or one, Legacy carrier will survive, but international travel will be largely done by foreign carriers. Isn't that a great possibility?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

My crystal ball says in 15 years LCCs will dominate domestic travel. A few, or one, Legacy carrier will survive, but international travel will be largely done by foreign carriers. Isn't that a great possibility?

My crystal ball--

There will be Legacies, or hub and spoke carriers, but they may be entirely new companies. Created with new capitol and possessing a fresh balance sheet. I envision GECAS getting involved in such a venture.

Or they may be supersized regionals or LCC's with a wholly owned mainline subsidiary.

 

[doh]

Skykid,

It certainly is possible. Didn't I say on another thread that Delta needs to clean house on VP's and the like. Thanks for agreeing with me climbhappy.

 

[On Your Six]

It seems clearly evident that Delta is going after two things. It needs relief from the pension fund which is huge, and additional employee cost cuts. Look for BK to do just that. Mainline guys will take it in the shorts again with the rest of us in the 10-15% area. Delta will make it, but it wont be Delta as we know it when it comes out the other end.

Do you know the Georgia lotto numbers too? What a joke. The only thing you are guaranteed is that you (along with most other regional pilots) will ultimately be making less thanks to the JetBlue 190 rates... That is a certainty.

The rest is uncertain. Don't you think Grinstein and Jack Smith (formerly GM CEO now Delta Chairman) would have already taken the Chapter 11 plunge if it were a better option for Delta? They have a fiduciary duty to look after shareholder interests and they can be sued directly if they do not. I am not pro-management by any means (I am ex UAL) but your prophecy is too definitive.

As far as pensions are concerned, Congress will either extend the payments or they will create a worse problem for the PBGC. The PBGC currently can't handle UAL's and USAirway's pensions.

 

[MedFlyer]

DL doesn't need BK to get additional paycuts and pension relief. Both can be gotten outside of BK....even from the mainline pilots.

In DL's case, BK would primarily be used for debt reduction. DL's debt burden is so extreme that the company will struggle for many years in the future. Even if DL manages to return to profitability, DL will have a hard time competing with other airlines that aren't forking out hundreds of millions in interest payments alone.

However, it's quite possible that DL is beyond the point of using the bankruptcy system. The company is so leveraged that a CH11 filing would likely become a CH7 liquidation. DL's management may have put the company in a position where they either restructure outside of the courts or liquidate....no sitting in CH11 for years like UAL.

 

[AAPilot]

Again, Boyd just stated a few months ago that all of the 50 seat RJs would be in the boneyard by now. He also thought UAL would be Chap 7 by now. He is looking for newspaper bites. Did he jusr figure out that fuel prices were a problem? Somebody tell him that three fuel surcharges have stuck now....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Boyd also said that after the AA cutbacks in October of 03' that AA would completely pull out of STL by April of 04'. Wrong again, this guy is an idiot!

 

[DaveGriffin]

I can see the non-union people losing another 10-15%, and then heavy maintenance will be wiped away in favor of outsourcing (what everyone else is doing), and other major changes.

In the mean time, DL's honchos have to do whatever it takes to survive.....

The Grand, All-knowing and Benevolent GL would not blink at:
1. Outsorcing all the mech's jobs to Canada (everyone's doing it)
2. Cutting the pay of all other employees by 15% (the dumb b*stards have no unions)
3. Furloughing every other mainline pilot with a seniority number higher than GL's (tough s**t, they're juniors)

Why not? He and all the other seniors on the list have just come off the best three years of their careers, all the while claiming that Delta was exagerating the financial warnings during that time. DALPA's delay in the negotiations and taking action led directly to the problems which have essentially shut down recalls.

GL is no different than Leo.

 

[michael707767]

DL doesn't need BK to get additional paycuts and pension relief. Both can be gotten outside of BK....even from the mainline pilots.

.

I'll bet you Delta doesn't get another dime from the pilots outside of BK. I know I won't give em any more.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I'll bet you Delta doesn't get another dime from the pilots outside of BK. I know I won't give em any more.

As long as the line pilots continue to feather their own nests, by reducing the rate of recall (through bull s**t like letting early retirees continue as contract workers) therefore making the furloughees fund the $$ needed, I am sure you are correct.

You b*stards with the votes will do everything you can to keep every last dime in your own stinking pockets.

 

[MedFlyer]

I'll bet you Delta doesn't get another dime from the pilots outside of BK. I know I won't give em any more.

I don't think the pilots will be the first place DL looks for additional cuts. There are easier places to cut....as evidenced by yesterday's maintenance cuts. But if DL gets desperate, they will come knocking. Keep in mind, DL pilots are still some of the highest paid in the industry...despite the fact that DL has one of the lowest yielding networks.

If DL management starts talking CH7, I think a lot of pilots will all of the sudden become amenable to additional cuts. I know many on this board will thump their chests and say "No More", but when it comes down to a 10% paycut versus liquidation, many will change their tune. Remember, DL only needs 50%+1.

Hopefully, it won't come to this and DL won't need anymore labor cuts...pilot or otherwise. But with the chaos of this industry, it's hard to know where DL is headed.

 

[On Your Six]

GL is no different than Leo.[/QUOTE]

Now that is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!

 

[On Your Six]

I don't think the pilots will be the first place DL looks for additional cuts. There are easier places to cut....as evidenced by yesterday's maintenance cuts. But if DL gets desperate, they will come knocking. Keep in mind, DL pilots are still some of the highest paid in the industry...despite the fact that DL has one of the lowest yielding networks.

If DL management starts talking CH7, I think a lot of pilots will all of the sudden become amenable to additional cuts. I know many on this board will thump their chests and say "No More", but when it comes down to a 10% paycut versus liquidation, many will change their tune. Remember, DL only needs 50%+1.

Hopefully, it won't come to this and DL won't need anymore labor cuts...pilot or otherwise. But with the chaos of this industry, it's hard to know where DL is headed.

Why would DL's management talk Chapter 7 (very extreme) when UAL and USAirways have been surviving (maybe even thriving with the ability to offer cheaper fares) in Chapter 11 for years? Give me a break. Talking about Chapter 7 would cause the stock to tank even further and shareholders would not be happy. Clearly, if Chapter 11 were the best course of action at this point, Delta would have likely ALREADY taken that path.

 

[DaveGriffin]

GL is no different than Leo.

Now that is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!

You're right OY6.

My extreme exaggeration of the comparison is comical.

Unfortunatley, we are in a zero-sum game; those that are most successfully in taking from other groups to benefit their own group will be the relative winners.

Leo was a master, of national staure, at spinning facts to enrich himself and his management team. He kept the plates in the air for several years before they fell.

GL, as an armchair, chat-board amateur, attempts to play the same game, attacking other pilot groups within DALPA and ALPA in an attempt to minimize the negative economic impact on his group: himself and all other DL pilots senior to him.

As Leo fell in disgrace, so will GL and his constituency.

 

[8vATE]

Why would DL's management talk Chapter 7 (very extreme) when UAL and USAirways have been surviving (maybe even thriving with the ability to offer cheaper fares) in Chapter 11 for years? Give me a break.

Great quote On Your Sex....


That makes a lot of sense..

UAL and USAirways are still bleeding like stuck pigs.....

They are THRIVING!!!


Must be those EMB190 rates...
Wow...

Just think when they actually start to fly!!