More Delta Trouble

[General Lee]

General, this post disappoints me greatly. You are one of the last people that I would expect to be calling for employee pay cuts. And the last highlighted quote about pensions going away, ARE YOU SERIOUS? .....................I must be misunderstanding your words.

Help me out, are you advocating that DAL needs to cut pay and benefits to survive?

enigma

I am not calling for any pay cuts. I guessed that if management were to call for pay cuts, they would go to the non-union people first since they originally had a smaller pay cut percentage wise, and they have no contracts which would make it easier, hence no negotiations. I think DL needs to work on the revenue side first, and they are addressing those issues, along with becoming more competitive with certain cost cuts that every other airline has---like outsourcing maintenance. We cannot compete with the likes of the LCCs and other Majors when they ALL outsource their heavy maintenance to Canada and Latin America. We are trying ot cut $5 billion a year out of our yearly budget. That is huge, and we are on our way. I don't want anyone to get more pay cuts or lose their jobs really, but what else can we do in regards to the maintenance issues? We have to compete.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

My crystal ball says in 15 years LCCs will dominate domestic travel. A few, or one, Legacy carrier will survive, but international travel will be largely done by foreign carriers. Isn't that a great possibility?

You forgot about what would happen when California falls into the sea in 10 years due to that earthquake in 2015. Then what would happen Nostradamas?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

DL doesn't need BK to get additional paycuts and pension relief. Both can be gotten outside of BK....even from the mainline pilots.

In DL's case, BK would primarily be used for debt reduction. DL's debt burden is so extreme that the company will struggle for many years in the future. Even if DL manages to return to profitability, DL will have a hard time competing with other airlines that aren't forking out hundreds of millions in interest payments alone.

However, it's quite possible that DL is beyond the point of using the bankruptcy system. The company is so leveraged that a CH11 filing would likely become a CH7 liquidation. DL's management may have put the company in a position where they either restructure outside of the courts or liquidate....no sitting in CH11 for years like UAL.

This is ridiculous. We still have furinture to burn (ASA/Comair, BOS terminal, JFK, etc..) and we are on the way to cutting $5 billion a year from our spending. With that type of savings all you need is current cash on had to pay the required payments for debt and keep a certain balance in the bank. Then, when good times do return (fares go up, gas goes down somewhat, another lagacy carrier finally goes away) then those costs savings come into play and we do make more money to pay off that debt. Even Grinstein said we must pay down the debt, and it will take a long time, but that is what we will have to do. You have no idea who would or would not invest in the largest airline hub in the world. The probable sale of YOUR airline will give us the time we need to have those cost savings initiatives into effect.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dizel8]

"I know a lot more than you dude."

Sure, you know it all!

 

[General Lee]

I don't think the pilots will be the first place DL looks for additional cuts. There are easier places to cut....as evidenced by yesterday's maintenance cuts. But if DL gets desperate, they will come knocking. Keep in mind, DL pilots are still some of the highest paid in the industry...despite the fact that DL has one of the lowest yielding networks.

If DL management starts talking CH7, I think a lot of pilots will all of the sudden become amenable to additional cuts. I know many on this board will thump their chests and say "No More", but when it comes down to a 10% paycut versus liquidation, many will change their tune. Remember, DL only needs 50%+1.

Hopefully, it won't come to this and DL won't need anymore labor cuts...pilot or otherwise. But with the chaos of this industry, it's hard to know where DL is headed.

All that has happened in the last few weeks was said in that infamous crew lounge meeting, including the heavy maintenance issue (I think I stated that a few days ago before my trip). Talk of your sale was also stated there, and this was all known---about 7 weeks ago. None of this was spur of the moment.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You're right OY6.

My extreme exaggeration of the comparison is comical.

Unfortunatley, we are in a zero-sum game; those that are most successfully in taking from other groups to benefit their own group will be the relative winners.

Leo was a master, of national staure, at spinning facts to enrich himself and his management team. He kept the plates in the air for several years before they fell.

GL, as an armchair, chat-board amateur, attempts to play the same game, attacking other pilot groups within DALPA and ALPA in an attempt to minimize the negative economic impact on his group: himself and all other DL pilots senior to him.

As Leo fell in disgrace, so will GL and his constituency.

HAHHAHAHAHAHHA. You again are an idiot. I am stating the facts---we needed to outsource because everyone else is doing it and we are losing money. I guess you are against cost cutting measures? Our management is trying to get to that $5 billion a year savings mark, and this will help. We gave $1 billion a year and the others will probably have to fork over more because they have no unions or contracts. That is not my fault---I pay money every pay check for my protection. And, those senior pilots are leaving again due to the higher GATT rate again, which will increase recalls. A lot of those guys are leaving in their early 50's, and that is good for the rest of us. (Even you, if you are a pilot) (Are you married to a Delta stew?)

As far as me falling in disgrace, you are WRONG. I have backed up our furloughs and I have watched our senior guys fret and finally leave, and that is good for every junior pilot. Those furloughed pilots have been coming back at a measured pace because we don't have sims for them to fly---all of the retiring pilot have created a training mess. You should know that, but you are sulking AGAIN.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"I know a lot more than you dude."

Sure, you know it all!

More than you on the subject of DL. I have resources, and you already think I am mangement...... I talk to the people in charge, I talk to the people in the know. You are guessing. I do know more than you about DL. And, you also know that Jetblue's rates for 100 seaters set a very low benchmark for everyone. Why don't you address that? $89 an hour for a 12 year Captain on that E190?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Great quote On Your Sex....


That makes a lot of sense..

UAL and USAirways are still bleeding like stuck pigs.....

They are THRIVING!!!


Must be those EMB190 rates...
Wow...

Just think when they actually start to fly!!

Nice comments AGAIN. The pension deal will change after these guys went into Chap 11 SO OTHERS MIGHT AVOID IT AND NOT MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE FOR THE PBGC. FIGURED IT OUT YET? SLOW, huh?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[House_X]

Hey General...us furloughees are saving a space in the soup line for ya...

hmmmmmm...soup's good today...creame ala shoe sole....

 

[General Lee]

Hey General...us furloughees are saving a space in the soup line for ya...

hmmmmmm...soup's good today...creame ala shoe sole....

Skyway is hiring you guys? Right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Skyway is hiring you guys? Right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

No...we are not.

But if you're being facetious, disregard my comment.

HMM

 

[8vATE]

On the defensive Lee?

WOW...



guess it hurts when people other than YOU have something to say....



what makes you think that DAL's lobbyist will have any more success lobbying Congress than UALs???

Just because YOU talked to an MEC rep?

 

[House_X]

Skyway is hiring you guys? Right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

I wish...

Actually, I would take a Skyway offer if they gave me the left seat...

OK...I'm done dreamin'....back to the soup line...

 

[enigma]

We cannot compete with the likes of the LCCs and other Majors when they ALL outsource their heavy maintenance to Canada and Latin America.

Spirit isn't looking good at the present, but we are a semi-successful LCC; AND we are currently outsourcing our heavy maintenance..........all the way to Texas. I don't know how long it will last because the new Airbii shouldn't need much in the way of heavy checks for a while, but the last I checked, every MD80 we fly is given it's "C" Check at Fort Worth. Not that any of this really matters in this Delta discussion, I just wanted to show that it is possible to do your own heavy maintenance.

enigma

edit: the FTW facility belongs to Spirit and is operated as Spirit Aviation Services. We maintain the Part 145(?) repair station certification and are currently performing a C Check on two of our own DC9's and one customer 737advanced. It is the old Eagle Aviation Services facility up on the north end of the field.

 

[Dizel8]

"and you already think I am mangement"

No, you just talk like one!