More cuts coming at Netjets????

[swampfan]

Who is this General Lee character? You guys keep talking to him, but I don't see his posts anywhere. Straightjackets and rubber rooms for all of ya. Next.

 

[General Lee]

Seriously, I don't need your good luck. He wants the overspending to stop and you think that aint good? That is the best thing for NJA. He yelled at people in a conference call? Oh my god! This guy is a lunatic! I can't understand why he wants this company to make money? Seriously, I think you are the one that needs to be wished good luck, you obviously need some seeing as how you are so pessimistic. Gooooood Luck son
Bye Bye

You don't think that is bad? It is bad when it comes to your pay and benefits. How much do you currently pay for medical benefits? Nothing, right? I bet that will go bye bye. How about your cushy food off of menus? Sounds great, but expensive. He is going to slash and burn, and I don't think that is good. That sucks. But, it has happened elsewhere, and it will happen again. The point is NOBODY is safe, even if Capt Dad thinks he is invincible. Not trying to be pessimistic, rather a realist. Hey, we had the same thing happen to us, and people at the top usually fall down eventually. Good luck again, you will need it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[imacdog]

You don't think that is bad? It is bad when it comes to your pay and benefits. How much do you currently pay for medical benefits? Nothing, right? I bet that will go bye bye. How about your cushy food off of menus? Sounds great, but expensive.

All covered under the contract. Thanks for your concern.

 

[imacdog]

Also, could anyone explain to me how General Lee is all of a sudden a subject matter expert on fractional flying? Maybe someone should remind him of our all-time high record flying day a couple weeks ago?

 

[CA1900]

You don't think that is bad? It is bad when it comes to your pay and benefits.

Our pay and benefits are still substandard for the work we do.

How much do you currently pay for medical benefits? Nothing, right? I bet that will go bye bye.

If they're able to negotiate that, it's a possibility, but it'd be a hard sell to the pilot group.

How about your cushy food off of menus? Sounds great, but expensive.

They're fine, but they're not cushy, and not for our benefit. (And the prices NetJets pay for the crew meals are dictated by the vendor contracts, not by us or our contract.)

The alternative is to release us to get in a taxi/rental car and find something to eat. I'm not sure of the last time you visited an FBO, but there isn't a crappy food court inside. The choices are to have food delivered, or keep a valuable airplane closed up on the ground for an extra hour, and potentially delay a client while a crew goes on a food hunt. Frankly, I'd rather go get a real meal and sit down and enjoy it, but it's much more cost effective for the company to spend the $50, feed the crew at the airport, and give the clients the punctual service for which they're paying a great deal.

 

[cjdriver]

General's just tired of eating at Popeyes.

 

[johnsonrod]

As long as Marquis Cards continue to sell like hotcakes you will need a rather large fleet to accomodate.

 

[gunfyter]

Say what???? Read the article again. Your new CEO wants heads to roll. Did you read about his conference call with department heads, where he yelled "come clean or lose your jobs!!!" I guess you missed that part. He will do whatever it takes to clean up the overspending. Why would an analyst say you should have only 180 planes vs the 500 you have now? That aint good. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Because he misspoke... or was misquoted. He probably said or meant to say that the fleet could be reduced that many (180) airplanes. Still not good, but significantly changes the climate forecast.

 

[gunfyter]

I meant you are in line for downsizing and lower pay and benefits, which is exactly what happened to most of the legacy airlines. Not fun, I have been there already.

In line? Downsizing (furlough) is in the contract.

Lower pay and benefits ... When would you predict this?

I have a contract until May 2013... with extension possible till 2015. (And a Pen whose ink I only use to check the NO block on ballots.) I am thinking I will see no changes as long as I can vote NO.

I ask because I haven't been there before --as you have.... Do you see any probability your prediction could happen before 2013? I want to be prepared.

Anything is possible ... but I am hoping and betting the Economy and the Business Jet business will be largely recovered by May 2013.

Good Luck to you as well General Lee... Happy Chanukah and Merry Christmas.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

View Post Yesterday, 19:53

This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list.

 

[xrated]

I didn't say you were going BK, since you are backed by a giant called Berkshire Hathaway. Buffet wouldn't allow it.
Bye Bye---General Lee

Never say never. The attitude has always been "Uncle Warren would never let that happen", and the quote is still heard as 475+ pilots head to the unemployment line. Regradless of how successful "Uncle Warren" has been, the current market forces are even bigger than BH and Warren. Other latent forces should always be considered. Buffet is no spring chicken, and if NetJets is the dog it may be, BH may dump it. How many more "chiefs" will Warren bring in to save it before they throw in the towel? Lets all hope that the ship can be saved, none of us want to see any more pilots on the streets. And maybe yes, "Uncle Warren" and Co. may save the day.

 

[xrated]

As long as Marquis Cards continue to sell like hotcakes you will need a rather large fleet to accomodate.

If the Marquis cards/flying doesn't cover the costs of a large fleet, then they will stop selling the cards. I'm sure the new guy is looking at it.

 

[gunfyter]

I don't say never.

But unless there is a financial collapse of the United States ... this economy will return to Prosperity. And when it does ... so will Fractional Jet Sales.

Its a matter of survival for all the players until that happens. Preserving Capital. NJ got caught with their pants down when this economic sunami hit. With too many aircraft orders and too many pilots hired. Hiring pilots in advance for expected deliveries of 60 or more planes per year.

A simple glance at AirlinePilotCentral.com and some 5th grade algebra ...

NJ currently employs about 6.5 pilots for every airplane. The other Fracs employ about 4.0 per ship.

After the furloughs there will be about 5.5 pilots per ship.
​

I would expect us to maintain about that many per ship. If the number of aircraft is reduced ... that won't be good. So we definitely need demand to stabilize NOW ... and then increase.

The economy isn't great ... but I think it is on an upswing and hopefully the worst is over. Buy Low Sell high ... this is the time to buy Netjets -- NOT Sell.

 

[johnsonrod]

In line? Downsizing (furlough) is in the contract.

Lower pay and benefits ... When would you predict this?

I have a contract until May 2013... with extension possible till 2015. (And a Pen whose ink I only use to check the NO block on ballots.) I am thinking I will see no changes as long as I can vote NO.

I ask because I haven't been there before --as you have.... Do you see any probability your prediction could happen before 2013? I want to be prepared.

Anything is possible ... but I am hoping and betting the Economy and the Business Jet business will be largely recovered by May 2013.

Good Luck to you as well General Lee... Happy Chanukah and Merry Christmas.

Looking at the recent articles, your fleet may be cut in half before 2013.

 

[gunfyter]

Looking at the recent articles, your fleet may be cut in half before 2013.

What if it is? How does that affect the contract?

I think many of these articles contain more misinformation than truth.

Remember: The public ALWAYS overreacts... That's why the DOW went to $6K only a few months ago and now is about $10.5K


Aircraft Values:

The majority of losses reported were decline in aircraft values... We still have the aircraft.

Lets say that between NOW and 2013 ... aircraft values recover by 1/2 of what we lost in values since last year.... and that the reported losses were $500M in aircraft value.

Well then ... we are looking at reporting $250M in profit due to increased aircraft valuation.

Just like this year my 401K has recovered 70% of the massive losses I took last year... This year I am showing a large GAIN.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Looking at the recent articles, your fleet may be cut in half before 2013.

A fleet that size couldn't cover the owner demand of an average Tuesday let alone a peak demand day. Even now.

Hate to break it to you, the General, and a handful of folks that know nothing of our business, but the ship has been righted, the pumps are working, and the hatches are battened down to ride out this storm.

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Sokol knows how and when to pull the trigger. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[Pervis]

I'll believe the inside status reports from the current leadership before I'll believe any speculative articles. The last 4-6 weeks of business updates have been very positive. Sorry, disclosing details is above my pay grade. The trend is definitely indicating things are stabilizing, if not slowly improving. If some other unforseen calamity occurs, all bets are off. Of course, that affects everyone.

What's more disturbing than current economics is the number of fellow pilots who seem to be drooling over the troubles of others. Following negative diatribes with 'gook luck......' is BS. Why not be glad for other's success, empathize with those in trouble, and make every effort in controling/improving your own status rather than trying to drag down everyone to your level of misery.

 

[Dingo221]

Oh yeah,
Net Jets has troubles, the world shakes, Flight Options has the same issues, it is just a joke to you.
Well when you only have a few planes, Flops will come to your rescue.
Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!

 

[johnsonrod]

I'll believe the inside status reports from the current leadership before I'll believe any speculative articles. The last 4-6 weeks of business updates have been very positive. Sorry, disclosing details is above my pay grade. The trend is definitely indicating things are stabilizing, if not slowly improving. If some other unforseen calamity occurs, all bets are off. Of course, that affects everyone.

What's more disturbing than current economics is the number of fellow pilots who seem to be drooling over the troubles of others. Following negative diatribes with 'gook luck......' is BS. Why not be glad for other's success, empathize with those in trouble, and make every effort in controling/improving your own status rather than trying to drag down everyone to your level of misery.

Hey, I support you guys at Netjets. Who wants to see pilots in the unemployment line? Not me. I bet a bunch of low-seniority Netjets pilots (who are now potentially impacted) probably left solid airline positions to go to Netjets - and for good reason because the Netjets offer (salary, QOL, schedule and quality of aircraft) was excellent. I am just trying to understand the impact of potential changes and I am responding to the article at the beginning of the post.

I sincerely hope things don't turn out as bad as some might think. Netjets is still the gold standard in the fractional business. You never know what will happen in the aviation business...

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Not fun, I have been there already. But, I married rich. (not a guy named Rich, just a girl with a better job than mine) Just remember, you can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can fall in love with a poor one.

Socioeconomically, men tend to marry down, while woman marry up. Often it doesn't work well the other way around. You must be quite the stud muffin.

It is true a rich girl may fall in love with a pauper like myself, but usually its short-lived if you don't have the proper pedigree for family life, lifestyle, etc.