Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

[General Lee]

I guess we'll see who puts one in first.

Well ok then.......What? Maybe then we can fly two man crews to Europe from ATL----that will be so much fun, because the duty day won't be as bad as a 4 leg day on the MD88........ 12 hours nonstop at night to Moscow from ATL will be fun with a crew of two. Does that sound safe B6guy? Sure it does, because the "DUTY DAY ISN'T AS LONG AS YOUR OLD AIRLINE WITH 6 LEGS A DAY, SO THEREFORE IT MUST BE BETTER FOR YOU-----12 HOURS NONSTOP TO MOSCOW WITH ONLY TWO PILOTS......." Yeah, if you guys get to do transcon turns, our management would probably love for us to fly 12 hour legs to Europe with two pilots too. Why not B6Guy? Is there a difference? Same "Duty day" scenario you give....No chance to get tired..... Give me a break. Su-wheat, I can't wait. Thanks Jetblue dudes. I hope you guys change the 30/7 rule to 50 in 7, and the 100 a month limit to 150, and the 1000 a year limit to 1500, and age 60 to 85, and..........marrying your sister, and......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flying Freddie]

Well ok then.......What? Maybe then we can fly two man crews to Europe from ATL----that will be so much fun, because the duty day won't be as bad as a 4 leg day on the MD88........ 12 hours nonstop at night to Moscow from ATL will be fun with a crew of two. Does that sound safe B6guy? Sure it does, because the "DUTY DAY ISN'T AS LONG AS YOUR OLD AIRLINE WITH 6 LEGS A DAY, SO THEREFORE IT MUST BE BETTER FOR YOU-----12 HOURS NONSTOP TO MOSCOW WITH ONLY TWO PILOTS......." Yeah, if you guys get to do transcon turns, our management would probably love for us to fly 12 hour legs to Europe with two pilots too. Why not B6Guy? Is there a difference? Same "Duty day" scenario you give....No chance to get tired..... Give me a break. Su-wheat, I can't wait. Thanks Jetblue dudes. I hope you guys change the 30/7 rule to 50 in 7, and the 100 a month limit to 150, and the 1000 a year limit to 1500, and age 60 to 85, and..........marrying your sister, and......


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,
Sounds just like a Legacy rant. Just like Delta mgt you can't accept change. Therefore your evolutionary process has slowed (Delta as well), maybe even started backwards. Check to see if you have the start of gills and please get back to me.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Yeah, if you guys get to do transcon turns, our management would probably love for us to fly 12 hour legs to Europe with two pilots too. Why not B6Guy? Is there a difference? Same "Duty day" scenario you give....No chance to get tired..... Give me a break. Su-wheat, I can't wait. Thanks Jetblue dudes. I hope you guys change the 30/7 rule to 50 in 7, and the 100 a month limit to 150, and the 1000 a year limit to 1500, and age 60 to 85, and..........marrying your sister, and......


Bye Bye--General Lee

Surely, General, your union wouldn't allow your management to impose these new rules. Surely.

 

[General Lee]

Surely, General, your union wouldn't allow your management to impose these new rules. Surely.

I doubt it, but surely the FAA wouldn't allow these rule changes. Safety is important to the FAA, right? And, don't call me Shirley.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL,
Sounds just like a Legacy rant. Just like Delta mgt you can't accept change. Therefore your evolutionary process has slowed (Delta as well), maybe even started backwards. Check to see if you have the start of gills and please get back to me.

Since the bus is soooo automated, Jetblue will add to the evolution process one more time with SINGLE PILOT AIRBI. The equipment is sooo advanced, that we only need one proficient pilot----doing transcon turns too. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Since the bus is soooo automated, Jetblue will add to the evolution process one more time with SINGLE PILOT AIRBI. The equipment is sooo advanced, that we only need one proficient pilot----doing transcon turns too. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't give them ideas General. They could have a "study" going tomorrow for just that.

 

[B6Guy]

When do you 'rest' ??

So general, on a 4-6 leg day, 14 hours long, just when do you get to rest?? Do you close the cockpit door and snooze while the passengers get on and off during time at the gate?? or what?? When do you get rest??

If you are so 'fresh' after a 14 hour multiple leg day what possibly could make you so exhausted after an 11.5 flight-hour/14 duty-hour trans con turn, two legs during your normal wake cycle?????

I don't get it. Can you answer this?? If not, who sounds 'stupid or idiotic' now??

I've experienced the trans con turn, and it is EASY. Poor weather included.

However, I regularly do morning flights followed by an attempted day-sleep followed by an all night red-eye and that is FAA legal and dangerously abusive on the body and rest cycles. These types of flights wear me out, the day-time transcon turn was like I said, very easy to do.

Can you honestly tell us that when you get out of the pilot seat and get into a different seat for international 'rest' that you are oh-so refreshed a few hours later when you take your pilot seat again?? I found IRO duty and IRO flights incredibly booring and nobody felt any better for their 'rest' period out of the pilot seat. Just an antiquainted old rule from the flying-boat days that is long overdue for change.

 

[PCL_128]

B6Guy, both are unsafe conditions. Flying 6 legs a day in a 14 hour duty day is unsafe just like the transcon turns are. I support further restrictions on rest requirements and duty limits, not fewer. JBlue is moving in the wrong direction. We need to be working towards tighter rules on these things.

 

[AAflyer]

Since the bus is soooo automated, Jetblue will add to the evolution process one more time with SINGLE PILOT AIRBI. The equipment is sooo advanced, that we only need one proficient pilot----doing transcon turns too. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey General,

What are you crazy!! Don't give them any ideas like that, they might just try it, but I am looking forward to the "blue" spin on it.

AA

 

[Flying Freddie]

Not that automated. You just can't have two French pilots flying it.

 

[thav8r]

Its odd from a discussion perspective how we can all have opinions about duty and flight times without even mentioning science or data. There is truly very little true science and data to support any of the current rules much less anything that is proposed. The rest of the world (except for France and the US--odd bedfellows) have scrapped the concept of flight time and gone to a duty time cycle based system based on some very strong and solid fatigue science. I would challenge those on this board to say that the Brits have a sub-par regulatory system or even JAROPS. The US does not have an exclusive on excellent FAR (as it did in the past).

Bottom line is that given current science and colleciton methods, there is room to develop an alternative means of compliance and safety. A change in either direction does not mean an automatic dive into a hotel (sorry General Lee). Aviation (and most Industries) have always provided rich cannon fodder to accomodate both safety and quality of life.

On the other subjects, everyone takes great glee on how JB's margins are decreasing while at the same time attacking the low wage scales. So, margins are going down which of course means our rates are too high? The economic reality is pretty simple, people will pay what they pay. Raise fares, load factors go down. Lower fares, load factors go up. Raise JB hourly rates by 15/hr. across the board and wipe out 3% of the margin which now makes Moody lower JB to junk bond grade. Try and recapture that by raising fares and our market share goes down. Ohh maybe the right answer is just lets have JB go out of the business and everything will automatically right itself with the rest of the industry.

Not that Im paranoid, but I suspect that would make lots of people on this board happy. How many of the non-JB's are truly looking out for our interest?

Mediocrity is the hallmark of failure

Just av8

 

[Diesel-9sRule]

"Its odd from a discussion perspective how we can all have opinions about duty and flight times without even mentioning science or data. "
​

Oh you want to mention science or data? How 'bout the NASA tech memorandum that the notice of proposed rulemaking is based upon.

This tech memo states that 10 DUTY hours should be the limit. Management sees that as 10 Flight hours. The NASA memo rules that duty includes preflight/postflight duties not hard flight time.

So what's all the hub-bub? B6 senior managment only wants to extend the flight hours to 10 so that they can fly crews 10 hours ALL OVER THE SYSTEM. Not just back and forth to the west coast.

How do I know? I heard it directly from B6 senior managment. Don't believe me if you want but are you willing to risk it.

 

[B6Guy]

Proposed rule???

My understanding is that the proposed rule is for TWO-LEG pairings only. So if it is to extend flight time to 10hrs on a two leg flight then where are we going to be able to use this??

JFK-LAS-JFK is 10.5 hours everything else is either legal under current rules [JFK-DEN-JFK] or too many hours for your '10 hours everywhere'.

The only place it could be used would be BOS-carribean-BOS. and that is Flag, and I doubt the proposed rule will extend into Flag ops.

So Diesel'sRule: I don't believe you, I think your statement is just flame-bait, and I bit on the bait.

The west coast turns are a piece of cake. Been there, done that. And I've opperated under JAROPS too, and their fight and duty rules make a LOT of sense, too bad the FAA won't look at them.

 

[Eagleflip]

Deisel9--do you have a link for that study?

 

[B6Guy]

Sorry I can't but

Sorry, I can't but adopt the General's method of post-count increases.

I propose a single pilot Airbus with ONLY over age 60 pilots to be qualified to fly them. It is obvious that their experience level negates any age related problems that the Super-Senior pilot may have. So let's go!! Kill the age 60 rule and get those guys out there proving how 'good' they are. Have them fly the 'new' single pilot Airbus program!!!

Obviously I'm not in favor of the age 60 rule going away. And a single pilot Airbus isn't what I'd consider safe either. But at the end of one of the 4/5 leg east coast, weather all day long, 'special' passengers, three crew changes, holding getting into JFK on the last leg..... Both pilots are operating at about half quality, so.... I guess with both pilots combined we have ONE pilot. Therefore I guess we already operate the 'Bus with a single pilot and with the blessings of the FAA and Alpa!! [obviously sarcasm if you didn't get it ]

Post count up one more