Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

[PCL_128]

Since the bus is soooo automated, Jetblue will add to the evolution process one more time with SINGLE PILOT AIRBI. The equipment is sooo advanced, that we only need one proficient pilot----doing transcon turns too. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't give them ideas General. They could have a "study" going tomorrow for just that.

 

[B6Guy]

When do you 'rest' ??

So general, on a 4-6 leg day, 14 hours long, just when do you get to rest?? Do you close the cockpit door and snooze while the passengers get on and off during time at the gate?? or what?? When do you get rest??

If you are so 'fresh' after a 14 hour multiple leg day what possibly could make you so exhausted after an 11.5 flight-hour/14 duty-hour trans con turn, two legs during your normal wake cycle?????

I don't get it. Can you answer this?? If not, who sounds 'stupid or idiotic' now??

I've experienced the trans con turn, and it is EASY. Poor weather included.

However, I regularly do morning flights followed by an attempted day-sleep followed by an all night red-eye and that is FAA legal and dangerously abusive on the body and rest cycles. These types of flights wear me out, the day-time transcon turn was like I said, very easy to do.

Can you honestly tell us that when you get out of the pilot seat and get into a different seat for international 'rest' that you are oh-so refreshed a few hours later when you take your pilot seat again?? I found IRO duty and IRO flights incredibly booring and nobody felt any better for their 'rest' period out of the pilot seat. Just an antiquainted old rule from the flying-boat days that is long overdue for change.

 

[PCL_128]

B6Guy, both are unsafe conditions. Flying 6 legs a day in a 14 hour duty day is unsafe just like the transcon turns are. I support further restrictions on rest requirements and duty limits, not fewer. JBlue is moving in the wrong direction. We need to be working towards tighter rules on these things.

 

[AAflyer]

Since the bus is soooo automated, Jetblue will add to the evolution process one more time with SINGLE PILOT AIRBI. The equipment is sooo advanced, that we only need one proficient pilot----doing transcon turns too. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey General,

What are you crazy!! Don't give them any ideas like that, they might just try it, but I am looking forward to the "blue" spin on it.

AA

 

[Flying Freddie]

Not that automated. You just can't have two French pilots flying it.

 

[thav8r]

Its odd from a discussion perspective how we can all have opinions about duty and flight times without even mentioning science or data. There is truly very little true science and data to support any of the current rules much less anything that is proposed. The rest of the world (except for France and the US--odd bedfellows) have scrapped the concept of flight time and gone to a duty time cycle based system based on some very strong and solid fatigue science. I would challenge those on this board to say that the Brits have a sub-par regulatory system or even JAROPS. The US does not have an exclusive on excellent FAR (as it did in the past).

Bottom line is that given current science and colleciton methods, there is room to develop an alternative means of compliance and safety. A change in either direction does not mean an automatic dive into a hotel (sorry General Lee). Aviation (and most Industries) have always provided rich cannon fodder to accomodate both safety and quality of life.

On the other subjects, everyone takes great glee on how JB's margins are decreasing while at the same time attacking the low wage scales. So, margins are going down which of course means our rates are too high? The economic reality is pretty simple, people will pay what they pay. Raise fares, load factors go down. Lower fares, load factors go up. Raise JB hourly rates by 15/hr. across the board and wipe out 3% of the margin which now makes Moody lower JB to junk bond grade. Try and recapture that by raising fares and our market share goes down. Ohh maybe the right answer is just lets have JB go out of the business and everything will automatically right itself with the rest of the industry.

Not that Im paranoid, but I suspect that would make lots of people on this board happy. How many of the non-JB's are truly looking out for our interest?

Mediocrity is the hallmark of failure

Just av8

 

[Diesel-9sRule]

"Its odd from a discussion perspective how we can all have opinions about duty and flight times without even mentioning science or data. "
​

Oh you want to mention science or data? How 'bout the NASA tech memorandum that the notice of proposed rulemaking is based upon.

This tech memo states that 10 DUTY hours should be the limit. Management sees that as 10 Flight hours. The NASA memo rules that duty includes preflight/postflight duties not hard flight time.

So what's all the hub-bub? B6 senior managment only wants to extend the flight hours to 10 so that they can fly crews 10 hours ALL OVER THE SYSTEM. Not just back and forth to the west coast.

How do I know? I heard it directly from B6 senior managment. Don't believe me if you want but are you willing to risk it.

 

[B6Guy]

Proposed rule???

My understanding is that the proposed rule is for TWO-LEG pairings only. So if it is to extend flight time to 10hrs on a two leg flight then where are we going to be able to use this??

JFK-LAS-JFK is 10.5 hours everything else is either legal under current rules [JFK-DEN-JFK] or too many hours for your '10 hours everywhere'.

The only place it could be used would be BOS-carribean-BOS. and that is Flag, and I doubt the proposed rule will extend into Flag ops.

So Diesel'sRule: I don't believe you, I think your statement is just flame-bait, and I bit on the bait.

The west coast turns are a piece of cake. Been there, done that. And I've opperated under JAROPS too, and their fight and duty rules make a LOT of sense, too bad the FAA won't look at them.

 

[Eagleflip]

Deisel9--do you have a link for that study?

 

[B6Guy]

Sorry I can't but

Sorry, I can't but adopt the General's method of post-count increases.

I propose a single pilot Airbus with ONLY over age 60 pilots to be qualified to fly them. It is obvious that their experience level negates any age related problems that the Super-Senior pilot may have. So let's go!! Kill the age 60 rule and get those guys out there proving how 'good' they are. Have them fly the 'new' single pilot Airbus program!!!

Obviously I'm not in favor of the age 60 rule going away. And a single pilot Airbus isn't what I'd consider safe either. But at the end of one of the 4/5 leg east coast, weather all day long, 'special' passengers, three crew changes, holding getting into JFK on the last leg..... Both pilots are operating at about half quality, so.... I guess with both pilots combined we have ONE pilot. Therefore I guess we already operate the 'Bus with a single pilot and with the blessings of the FAA and Alpa!! [obviously sarcasm if you didn't get it ]

Post count up one more

 

[freightdogfred]

I hope you blue dudes don't mind me posting it here but why start a new thread?

​

AirTran Airways Reports All-Time Record Traffic in July



ORLANDO, Fla., Aug. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AirTran Airways, asubsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today reported its Julyrevenue passenger miles (RPMs), available seat miles (ASMs), load factor andpassengers enplaned all represent all-time company records for any month inits' history. AirTran Airways' traffic, measured by revenue passenger miles (RPMs), grewby 39.4 percent, to nearly 1.1 billion RPMs, on an increase of 32.6 percent incapacity, based on available seat miles (ASMs). July's load factor increasedto 80.8 percent, compared to 76.9 percent in July 2004. The airline enplanedmore than 1.6 million passengers in the month of July, a 29.9 percent increasefrom July 2004. "We are extremely pleased with our record breakingperformance in July and want to thank our Crew Members for their hard work ata particularly busy time," said AirTran Airways' president and chief operatingofficer Robert L. Fornaro. "The strength in passenger demand for AirTranAirways service, particularly in light of record growth in capacity, isfurther testament to our product and service which continues the strongtraffic trends we've seen since May of this year." AirTran Airways July 2005 Traffic (Preliminary) July 2005 July 2004 Change Revenue Passenger Miles (000) 1,095,631 785,755 39.4% Available Seat Miles (000) 1,355,969 1,022,282 32.6% Load Factor 80.8% 76.9% 3.9 points Passengers Enplaned 1,623,522 1,249,412 29.9% Y-T-D 2005 Y-T-D 2004 Change Revenue Passenger Miles (000) 6,454,924 4,879,337 32.3% Available Seat Miles (000) 8,674,750 6,705,936 29.4% Load Factor 74.4% 72.8% 1.6 points Passengers Enplaned 9,477,014 7,654,306 23.8% AirTran Airways, one of America's largest low-fare airlines with 6,400friendly, professional Crew Members, operates over 500 daily flights to 47destinations. The airline's hub is at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta InternationalAirport, where it is the second largest carrier. AirTran Airways recentlyadded the fuel-efficient Boeing 737-700 aircraft to create America's youngestall-Boeing fleet. The airline is also the first carrier to install XMSatellite Radio on a commercial aircraft. For reservations or moreinformation, visit http://www.airtran.com (America Online Keyword: AirTran). Editor's note: Statements regarding the Company's operational andfinancial success, business model, expectation about future success, improvedoperational performance and our ability to maintain or improve our low costsare forward-looking statements and are not historical facts. Instead, they areestimates or projections involving numerous risks or uncertainties, includingbut not limited to, consumer demand and acceptance of services offered by theCompany, the Company's ability to maintain current cost levels, fare levelsand actions by competitors, regulatory matters and general economicconditions. Additional information concerning factors that could cause actualresults to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements iscontained from time to time in the Company's SEC filings, including but notlimited to the Company's annual report on Form 10-K for the year endedDecember 31, 2004. The Company disclaims any obligation or duty to update orcorrect any of its forward-looking statements. Media Contacts: Tad Hutcheson [email protected] 678.254.7442 Judy Graham-Weaver [email protected] 678.254.7448SOURCE AirTran Airways

 

[Diesel-9sRule]

My understanding is that the proposed rule is for TWO-LEG pairings only. So if it is to extend flight time to 10hrs on a two leg flight then where are we going to be able to use this??
​

Just ask "Big Al" to put that two leg rule in writing...he won't.

So Diesel'sRule: I don't believe you, I think your statement is just flame-bait, and I bit on the bait.

​

I don't flame bait... I just do my homework and can see past the propagada to what the actual agenda is.

 

[Diesel-9sRule]

Deisel9--do you have a link for that study?

Search for the NASA tech memorandum number 11040. Also look at:

The Battelle Memorial Institute
An Overview of the Scientific Literature
Concerning Fatigue, Sleep, and the Circadian Cycle

​

Interesting that the above memo was written by the same doctor who is currently working with B6 on this initiative...except now he's on the payroll.

​

 

[lowecur]

I hope you blue dudes don't mind me posting it here but why start a new thread?

AirTran Airways Reports All-Time Record Traffic in July

Come Nov 1st or thereabouts, Jetblue will begin flts from ROC and BUF to their Florida mkts. These routes will be the first truly head to head competition between AirTran's 717 and Jetblue's 190.

It will pit the established carrier and their popular 717's against the new 190 and B6's heavyweight marketing image. Any guess' on who the winner will be?

 

[Flying Freddie]

Wrong L/C.

 

[lowecur]

Wrong L/C.

Really?

Soooo, I guess those first 190's are going elsewhere. I just flew up to ROC and was told by an FA that the first 190 cities will be announced in September. He said he had no information where they would be going first but said upstate to Florida is definitely a priority for seasonal service.

In any case, I believe it will happen sooner rather than later, so the competition will be interesting..............for a short time.

 

[G4G5]

Come Nov 1st or thereabouts, Jetblue will begin flts from ROC and BUF to their Florida mkts. These routes will be the first truly head to head competition between AirTran's 717 and Jetblue's 190.

It will pit the established carrier and their popular 717's against the new 190 and B6's heavyweight marketing image. Any guess' on who the winner will be?

The consumer! They will both lower the price to the point where they will generate excess travel to the FL markets.

Once that novelty wears off the winner will be the one with the lowest CASM's. My guess is AirTran. The established 717 should clearly cost less then the introduction of a totaly new airframe and fleet type. Even with B6's PATHETIC 190 pay rates. B6's CASM's should come down once more 190's are on the property but that may take some time.

 

[lowecur]

The consumer! They will both lower the price to the point where they will generate excess travel to the FL markets.

Once that novelty wears off the winner will be the one with the lowest CASM's. My guess is AirTran. The established 717 should clearly cost less then the introduction of a totaly new airframe and fleet type. Even with B6's PATHETIC 190 pay rates. B6's CASM's should come down once more 190's are on the property but that may take some time.

Actually the 190 should have a better CASM than the 717. In June 2004, the CASM for AAI was 8.46 with lower fuel prices and very close to an all 717 fleet. A year later the CASM is 9.02 with higher fuel and the addition of quite a few CASM reducing 737NGs.

The 190 has no cost history at this point, but I don't see Boeing or Airbus countering their marketing boasts of lower CASMs than the 717, and 318. The addition of the 737NG on longer routes for AAI will actually lower the companies overall CASM, and the 190 will actually increase the overall CASM for B6 by about a point as their available seats approach the 320 over time. The real genius of the 190 will be the increased RASM from the shorter legs. This is where they will make their money.

Those pathetic pay rates were instituted to compete with US Airways, United, and DL who all have access to the 170 and will soon find themselves with 190s. Those rates were all in effect before B6 came to their decision. If you expect B6 to rollover to pilot pressure and not be competitive, you have sorely misjudged their mgt capability.

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Jetblue's Policies are Negative

I can't wait to leave my regional so I can get worse rules and regional pay at a "Major." I am already tired after flying 4 legs a day from Texas to the Northeast, and now Jetblue and a few of their pilots want to make my life even worse. I can't wait, sign me up. I got some friends that want to go to a real airline, like Continental. You Jetblue guys must lay yogurt in your shorts every time you see a 777. Peace out.

 

[G4G5]

Actually the 190 should have a better CASM than the 717. In June 2004, the CASM for AAI was 8.46 with lower fuel prices and very close to an all 717 fleet. A year later the CASM is 9.02 with higher fuel and the addition of quite a few CASM reducing 737NGs.

The 190 has no cost history at this point, but I don't see Boeing or Airbus countering their marketing boasts of lower CASMs than the 717, and 318. The addition of the 737NG on longer routes for AAI will actually lower the companies overall CASM, and the 190 will actually increase the overall CASM for B6 by about a point as their available seats approach the 320 over time. The real genius of the 190 will be the increased RASM from the shorter legs. This is where they will make their money.

Those pathetic pay rates were instituted to compete with US Airways, United, and DL who all have access to the 170 and will soon find themselves with 190s. Those rates were all in effect before B6 came to their decision. If you expect B6 to rollover to pilot pressure and not be competitive, you have sorely misjudged their mgt capability.

Their is no way that you can justify that addition of a fleet type of 1,2,3, 10 or 15 can compete with an established fleet type. Especially that of a competing LCC's. Economies of scale will not come into play until B6 has at least 25+ 190s.

Which is why going head to head with Lenord is STUPID, the man plays for keeps. It wasn't just DAL that forced B6 out of ATL.

The 190 pay rates will be the death of B6's stellar pilot relationship. Eventually the music has to stop and someone gets stuck in those seats. Those folks are not going to be happy. Which will only lead to inceased 190 costs. Taxi slow, call in sick, poor moral, increased union pressure yada yada. If mgt doesn't eventually roll over they will be the ones who have truly done the "misjudging"

$37 x 75 x 12= $33,300 To commute to reserve as a 190 FO in Kew Gardens. Your take home is around $23,000. Not even 2k a month, they aren't going to find that many takerswhen upgrade times start approaching 10 years (they are all ready around 5). Especially when CAL, UPS, Fedex, Airtran and Luv will still be hiring

You keep telling your self that B6 mgt is smart for instituting those pay rates. You are right, their is no chance it blows up in their face.