Money for nothing, copilots for free

[flydaddy0499]

I though the chief pilot of the organization in question was lacking in testicular fortitude. So I signed him up for some free internet offers that could "help" him with this issue.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

good bye Kit Darby...the leech is gone

 

[brokeflyer]

the plane is certified for single pilot operation and the pilot is single pilot qualified then the only person that can log anything would be a SIC with the same ratings giving instruction in the airplane with an ATP.

So the above post is correct in that the SIC can't log the time....even SIC time.

This job is a total scam.

 

[BoilerUP]

the plane is certified for single pilot operation and the pilot is single pilot qualified then the only person that can log anything would be a SIC with the same ratings giving instruction in the airplane with an ATP.

So the above post is correct in that the SIC can't log the time....even SIC time.

Incorrect.

As long as the PIC has a current 61.58 (regardless of being single-pilot qualified or not), an appropriately trained SIC may legally and legitimately log SIC time.

 

[Fly91]

Well, I don't see what is misleading. The ad states that the applicant is not required, will not get paid, and will have expenses covered. If the guy logs it-that is his problem. I am sure it will get him more contacts being there than sitting at the flight school. As for the training-well-you said it best when you called him a passenger--passengers do not need much training. I think you get what you pay for-if you pay zero-you can't get pissed when the guy suddenly leaves to go to another operator-it's just expected. After all do you have to quit a job that you don't really have? The training-you are probably right-but we don't know this guy may be looking to rekindle his old CFI skills and pass on his knowledge-who knows.

In these tough times when airline guys are flying C210's. Well the target applicant this guy is trying for still can't apply for a 135 IFR job due to his TT. So the poor guy has to envy the C210 crappy pay freight job and has to settle for free experience in a jet. They got the job at the C210 place because they had the time. I know folks at these gigs and they really don't like hiring airline guys because they know when they get the call to go back-they are gone as quick as they arrived and the freight still has to move. It is a crappy economy with a field of work that promotes shady behavior anyway. I don't expect it to change anytime soon. All the guys I made fun of for PFT and buying zero time type ratings all went on to great jobs. I did not and struggled for every honest hour and hard earned dollar. At least I have my dignity while I drive my Ford and eat my ramen noodles. lol.

You're right.

So pathetic around here. Everyone acts like they support the "brother" pilot man, but when some pilots get off their asses to support themselves and their families in any way they can, they SUCK!!!!

I know BBJ guys who went out and paid for their Learjet types and are flying air ambulance trips for $350/day, most of which are 14 hour duty days and longer. A company I do contract work for just hired two co-pilots, they paid for their own types on the Leajet and are only making $24,000/year. But they're eating and paying rent.

If you sit around and don't take a job for little money just because you care about what idiots think about you....you're the same idiot.

Low-time CFI's....fly for free all day long to get the time and experience you need to get a better gig. If you don't, shut up and don't ever complain.

Only thing that is really messed up is when a high-time jet pilot works for free. But why in the hell would he do that with absolutely NO gain from it.

HEY EVERYONE....
In the worst economic times in history, lets ask for double our regular daily rates for contract work and for salary positions lets demand the highest in the industry. You'll be sitting on the couch jerking off.

 

[brokeflyer]

Incorrect.

As long as the PIC has a current 61.58 (regardless of being single-pilot qualified or not), an appropriately trained SIC may legally and legitimately log SIC time.

neither the plane in this case or the operation require a SIC....so he can't log it. 61.58 dont have anything to do with it. This is no diffrent then flying a king air or other single pilot airplane. You still need to be current but if it's single pilot then it's single pilot. No SIC required.

I've asked this before of the FAA and that is what they told me. Years ago I ran an operation and we had an aztec, the FAA wanted us to have an SIC because it was a new operation. So therefore the SIC was legally able to log SIC because the operation required it. Even though the plane was single-pilot.

In this case neither plane nor pic require an sic.....so for him to log it the SIC would need to be typed and sole manipulator.

but, im just telling you how it is, go do whatever you want though. I'm not gonna be interviewing you....

 

[BoilerUP]

neither the plane in this case or the operation require a SIC....so he can't log it. 61.58 dont have anything to do with it. This is no diffrent then flying a king air or other single pilot airplane. You still need to be current but if it's single pilot then it's single pilot. No SIC required.

I've asked this before of the FAA and that is what they told me. Years ago I ran an operation and we had an aztec, the FAA wanted us to have an SIC because it was a new operation. So therefore the SIC was legally able to log SIC because the operation required it. Even though the plane was single-pilot.

In this case neither plane nor pic require an sic.....so for him to log it the SIC would need to be typed and sole manipulator.

but, im just telling you how it is, go do whatever you want though. I'm not gonna be interviewing you....

You're still incorrect...the operation doesn't matter, its what is written on the Type Certificate Data Sheet that does.

The Citation Bravo type certificate data sheet (just like all CE-500, 550 and 560 aircraft) requires two pilots; a pilot flies such an airplane single-pilot by obtaining a Single Pilot Waiver. The SPW makes the pilot qualified to fly SP in an airplane that isn't certified SP. If a CE500/550 gets converted to a CE501/551, then the TCDS requires only one pilot and a SPW isn't required.

I fly a CJ2+, and its TCDS that says "Required Crew - Minimum One". This means you can fly it with one pilot or two. I hold a CE525S rating, so provided the airplane is properly equipped (boom mic, accessble checklists, working autopilot) I can legally fly it SP...but it does not mean that I have to! In fact, if the autopilot is MEL'd in the CJ then you cannot legally fly it single-pilot even if you hold a 525S rating; you would need a trained SIC and you would need to be 61.58 current in order to legally fly with said SIC.

Contrast this to a King Air 90/200 or Piper Aztec TCDS and it will say "Required Crew - One". The word "minimum" makes all the difference in the world...and is why the kind of operation doesn't matter one iota.

In addition to my S type I have a current 61.58 endorsement in CE-525 aircraft, so I can put any pilot I wish in the right seat, train them in accordance with 61.55 and afterward they can legally and legitimately log every single tenth they fly with me.

I agree with you that the job is a scam...but the simple fact of the matter is as the PIC has a current 61.58, they can fly with an SIC (who is appropriately trained) and that SIC can log all the time they want while being 100% within the FARs.

 

[brokeflyer]

yes that is all true......I didnt see the "(properly trained SIC)"

I thought you were talking about them just taking someone off the street and sticking them over there. They need training to fly a 2 pilot crew.....which this stellar operation most likely laks.

my mistake for not seeing that....sorry.

 

[BoilerUP]

yes that is all true......I didnt see the "(properly trained SIC)"

I thought you were talking about them just taking someone off the street and sticking them over there. They need training to fly a 2 pilot crew.....which this stellar operation most likely laks.

my mistake for not seeing that....sorry.

No worries!

The FARs which apply to crew qualifications don't reflect the reality of modern single-pilot turbojets...I mean really, if the Administrator has approved you to fly a jet by yourself why do they require a 61.58 (achieved by doing the exact same ride as the type, just with a copilot) in order to utilize an SIC? Wouldn't it logically follow that if you can safely operate a jet by yourself the operation would be even safer with a copilot?

But I digress...

 

[brokeflyer]

yes my point was that company just putting "anyone" over there......they can't log that unless they are current. Which this place don't exactly sound like they are setting the world on fire as far as much of anything is concerned.