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siouxicide said:
If you ask me, their weather report from ATC sounded pretty decent, as if the storm had passed through.
Click to expand...

A level 6 storm with 80mph gusts that just passed through might very well not be "pretty decent" wx.

Clear or not, gotta give those things LOTS OF ROOM! - what does the AIM say? Ops specs?

gust fronts, microbursts, etc...can all happen very much in the clear.

Right now its anyones GUESS of course, but I'd gather that the proximity of those cells to their arrival path is getting most of the attention, not a deer on the runway.
 
siouxicide said:
Pretty misleading to throw RST ground control in there, but that's the media for you. RST is pretty close and the only controlled airport I can think of in the area with a RWY 31, but still far too distant to throw it in there as a comparison of weather conditions during that timeframe. That's sickening if they're trying to damn the pilots to John Q. Public with their "journalism".
If you ask me, their weather report from ATC sounded pretty decent, as if the storm had passed through. Who knows, we weren't there. A deer could have run onto the runway to cause a go-around, we'll never know. But the media disgusts me with their cut and paste of the audio.
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While I hate the press coverage of aviation events, I do not believe it was cut and paste audio. More likely a scanner.

On the other hand, if you personally would go around for a Deer on the runway after touchdown you are asking for trouble.
 
Gulfstream 200 said:
A level 6 storm with 80mph gusts that just passed through might very well not be "pretty decent" wx.

Clear or not, gotta give those things LOTS OF ROOM! - what does the AIM say? Ops specs?

gust fronts, microbursts, etc...can all happen very much in the clear.

Right now its anyones GUESS of course, but I'd gather that the proximity of those cells to their arrival path is getting most of the attention, not a deer on the runway.
Click to expand...

AMEN! as an example, many aircraft have been totaled by hail.........but they were in the clear!

Tornado's often live on the BACK side of a cell like that.
 
The ATC audio is just a recording of RST ground/tower/approach probably from liveatc.net I don't think there was any malice involved, but those transmissions happened concurrently with the incident flight. I think it's way too early to tell if the WX was a factor, but obviously they thought it was good enough to continue in visually. Who knows-it could have been anything; including weather.
 
This is a very sad event.

I deal with pushy passengers by one simple sentence "Sir/Maam , I also have a vested interest in arriving safely."

That usually shuts em up.
 
400A said:
On the other hand, if you personally would go around for a Deer on the runway after touchdown you are asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Have you seen what a deer does to a plane? Besides, I never said they'd touched down. If I was on the ground, especially with TR's and/or spoilers out, I'm committed. What I was saying is the reason for a go-around could be anything they deemed appropriate, not just weather. CVR has been reported in good condition so we might just find out when the NTSB dissects it.
And yes, I know, stay away from Tstorms, but we don't know what they saw on their radar and GENERALLY once a line has passed, all is OK(minus a wet runway). Don't tell me you've never landed after a thunderstorm has passed or better yet waited for one to pass. I'm saying many of us might have done the same thing depending on how the info was fed to us. It'd be nice to know if they had XMWX.
KOWA is controlled by MSP center under IFR. So a scanner is the most likely reason for the two controllers being heard. But if it's a scanner why aren't all the other ARTCC freqs heard? Just the accident aircraft's freq and RST ground talking around 10am? Doubt it. And I highly doubt those were the only two freqs plugged into the scanner so I'm still thinking a little editing was involved.
Yes I am prejudice against the media. They've altered quotes from me personally just to make their story better and, yes, they used a tape recorder so no excuses. I pray the media wasn't intentionally trying to condemn these two gentlemen before the facts are out.
I think it's healthy to speculate what happened so we can all be conscious of it the next time out. But it's just dead wrong to conclude and condemn without being there, sitting in their seats.
 
Just listened to that audio again...the cells were reported pretty close. But still....ya never know. Godspeed all involved.
 
siouxicide said:
Have you seen what a deer does to a plane? Besides, I never said they'd touched down. If I was on the ground, especially with TR's and/or spoilers out, I'm committed. What I was saying is the reason for a go-around could be anything they deemed appropriate, not just weather. CVR has been reported in good condition so we might just find out when the NTSB dissects it.
And yes, I know, stay away from Tstorms, but we don't know what they saw on their radar and GENERALLY once a line has passed, all is OK(minus a wet runway). Don't tell me you've never landed after a thunderstorm has passed or better yet waited for one to pass. I'm saying many of us might have done the same thing depending on how the info was fed to us. It'd be nice to know if they had XMWX.
KOWA is controlled by MSP center under IFR. So a scanner is the most likely reason for the two controllers being heard. But if it's a scanner why aren't all the other ARTCC freqs heard? Just the accident aircraft's freq and RST ground talking around 10am? Doubt it. And I highly doubt those were the only two freqs plugged into the scanner so I'm still thinking a little editing was involved.
Yes I am prejudice against the media. They've altered quotes from me personally just to make their story better and, yes, they used a tape recorder so no excuses. I pray the media wasn't intentionally trying to condemn these two gentlemen before the facts are out.
I think it's healthy to speculate what happened so we can all be conscious of it the next time out. But it's just dead wrong to conclude and condemn without being there, sitting in their seats.
Click to expand...

I assumed that you read the eye witness report that the aircraft touched down and was referring to that scenario. (not saying that was accurate ) I have seen what a Deer does to an aircraft and that is why I would never go around for one post touchdown. I would rather hit it decelerating than accelerating. Airborne, I agree go around.


Based on the radar picture I saw, it is entirely possible to me that those were the only voices on the frequency.
 
Actually RST is the controlling agency for KOWA under IFR, Minneapolis Center/Approach takes care of the upper level stuff. I did a majority of my flight training out of RST and the area and have lived here my entire life. The reason you are hearing ground and approach on the same frequency is that when it is not busy one to two controllers work all three frequencies.

Sad Sad Day...
 
400A said:
I would rather hit it decelerating than accelerating.
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Good point.

piav8r, thanks for correcting me on that. I'd never heard RST control in and out of OWA and the chart says MSP center, so I took it as fact. I guess WCCO may just very well be vindicated. :) Interested to hear what's said on the CVR.
 
just curious what the 800 dry landing distance would be at 20C, pressure alt 1000 ft, typical BOW, 1500 lbs payload, IFR fuel reserve.

Thanks
 
Landing Distance

The chart goes from Sea Level to 2000 ft, so here are the 2000 ft numbers at Max Landing Weight of 23,350.

Unfactored Dry: 2780ft

Factored: Dry: 4630
Wet: 5320

At 21,000 (More Realistic)

Dry Unfactored:2450ft Dry Factored:4280ft Wet:4920

These are 0 wind numbers.
 
400A said:
On the other hand, if you personally would go around for a Deer on the runway after touchdown you are asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Who said they ever "touched down"? I think they were slammed down or stalled down. 20 knots decrease in IAS which was reported by the pilot, maybe a second or two later they lost 50 knots and, well, you know..........

We'll find out all the facts soon enough.

It will be weather related though.
 
Rokit88 said:
This is a very sad event.

I deal with pushy passengers by one simple sentence "Sir/Maam , I also have a vested interest in arriving safely."

That usually shuts em up.
Click to expand...

I like, "Safety is my concern, not your appointments."

And I'm not kidding, I've said it to many people.
 
fu69atacafyeah said:
i would love to say that!! dont know how well it would go over but, im with you on that!
Click to expand...

They can take it as a joke or take it seriously, I don't care. I've had passengers kind of laugh when I would say it and some would just have a confused look on their face and go back and sit down.
 

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