MN crash

[say again]

Also, does the Hawker 800 have reversers? I remember seeing one without them, just the lift dumping system.

RIP

Some do and some don't.

RIP fellow aviators

 

[400A]

It's true. You know in charter it's all about the "revenue." They want to go somewhere and they've got be there by a certain time--that's why they choose to charter jets. The company's dispatchers and schedulers will bend over backwards to promise the customer will get whatever they want--no matter what the risk. They don't care about the pilots. They want repeat customers. Not this time...

Sucks.

Sad but true. When I flew 135, the Sentient folks were the worst. I finally refused to fly Sentient trips. We had a better environment than most 135 places. If a PIC called a flight for any reason, discussion over. The Director of Ops would always stand behind us. I had a sales person get nasty with me one day and after a confrence call with the D/O and V.P, she was relieved of duty. I wish more 135 outfits were like that.

 

[400A]

I'm not sure pilots are ever "bullied" into going anywhere, especially with corporate executives on board. Those types usually are conservative and know the risks.

On a different note, does anyone know if runway 30 is grooved? After a morning of nothing but heavy rain, I wonder if it had drained sufficiently. It's only 5500' and with a slight tailwind...

Also, does the Hawker 800 have reversers? I remember seeing one without them, just the lift dumping system.

RIP

I wish that were true. I have flown many type A personality executives who do not want to hear no for any reason. I have been pushed hard and when I have held firm, had the same folks reuse to fly with me because I told them no. Several even tried the yelling at me thing......yep, that went well.

Hawkers often have T/R's but on most ladings you will never spool them up. Lift Dump is very effective. Very little braking required. I just deploy the T/R's as drag devices.

 

[PilotswifeII]

My husband does some Sentient trips too. There is always the unlderlying fear that if you take matters into your own hands, you will be fired. It's gotta be a tough call for the pilots.

 

[Fly91]

Sounds like a microburst to me. It takes an amazing amount of wind to make those cones go bouncing and rolling across/over taxiways like ground was saying to the maintenance guys.

I'd like to know which direction those cones were going at the time they were reported to be blowing around. When the pilot reported the 20 knot LOSS in IAS, 1 mile final, is when they should of escaped it and gone around.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

My husband does some Sentient trips too. There is always the unlderlying fear that if you take matters into your own hands, you will be fired. It's gotta be a tough call for the pilots.

You really gotta explain this little gem.

If your husband has fear of charter dispatchers and the places they want him to operate, he need not be in the cockpit of ANY airplane.

Safety is not optional!

 

[Fly91]

It's true. You know in charter it's all about the "revenue." They want to go somewhere and they've got be there by a certain time--

Looks like they got there ON TIME...............

 

[Fly91]

You really gotta explain this little gem.

If your husband has fear of charter dispatchers and the places they want him to operate he need not be in the cockpit of ANY airplane.

x2

The most important person on a plane when I fly, is ME. Everyone else is secondary. If I get there in one piece, so will everyone else. I'll get them there in one piece, thats my job, then they can go close that $50 million deal, thats there job.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Sounds like a microburst to me. It takes an amazing amount of wind to make those cones go bouncing and rolling across/over taxiways like ground was saying to the maintenance guys.

I'd like to know which direction those cones were going at the time they were reported to be blowing around. When the pilot reported the 20 knot LOSS in IAS, 1 mile final, is when they should of escaped it and gone around.

Where are you getting this?

 

[Andy Neill]

Where are you getting this? [cones being blown around]

The audio clip previously posted has ground telling saying that the cones that were supposed to be on Echo were now on Juliet and would soon be "down near you". Was that at an airport other than OWA?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I'm pretty sure considering KOWA is uncontrolled. I know when I listened to the recording there were some ancillary transmissions regarding a runway 31 which doesn't exist there.

 

[SNAFU22]

Very sad, Godspeed.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone mixed more than one frequency into the recording. If it was done for dramatic effect that would be unconscionable.

As far as I know, MSP CTR is the controlling agency who cleared the flight for ILS30, freq. change to advisory, and the cancellation of IFR by the aircraft.

Everything else is UNRELATED.

 

[SLUF4]

It's my understanding that the ATC was from Rochester (RST) approach/tower, so that was the reference for rwy 31 and the microbursts. Interesting to note that they had the runway in sight and cancelled IFR prior to landing. Unsure how far out they were at this point.

 

[PilotswifeII]

You really gotta explain this little gem.

If your husband has fear of charter dispatchers and the places they want him to operate, he need not be in the cockpit of ANY airplane.

Safety is not optional!

Due to my hasty typing I realized after I posted that it looks that way. In fact, he is the bravest person I know for choosing to be a pilot. You all are.

My husband has over 5,000 hours of jet time with an excellent safety record and 0 incidents. He's lost engines and hydraulics and made it through. He always tells me he thinks about his family and that reminds him to take extra care in his flying. He used to tell me that when he was working with some jerk dispatchers at a small time operation, he would take measures to ensure the safety of all onboard or even refuse a trip if weather was a factor, but they may not take it too well. It was all about the customer getting what they want. Think about it, the customer has a meeting in one city and the plane is diverted to another location say 300 miles away from the destination due to weather. Is the customer going to be happy about it, or will they complain to the charter co.? The co. mgt. may not always see it the pilot's way because they are trying to build their customer base and make money. Most passengers don't know enough about weather to check it. They just care about their business and leave everything up to the pilots while they eat chocolate-covered strawberries and drink Perrier. There is no question about my husband's feelings on safety--he even advised a pilot not to take a trip due to weather one time. It ended up being that pilot's last trip--he didn't make it back.

I have a great deal of respect for all pilots and their families from freight dogs to airline captains. It kills me to hear about crashes, especially in 135 where I feel the risk is much higher for pilots.

I wish you all safe trips.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

The audio clip previously posted has ground telling saying that the cones that were supposed to be on Echo were now on Juliet and would soon be "down near you". Was that at an airport other than OWA?

I am guessing the Rochester MN tower... Someone with more local knowledge could confirm that.

 

[Limeyflyer]

Also, does the Hawker 800 have reversers? I remember seeing one without them, just the lift dumping system.

RIP

The lift dump worked very well, all you had to do was crack the T/R's use lift dump and it slowed rapidly. I think I fully deployed the T/R's once in the 6 yrs of flying the hawker.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Due to my hasty typing I realized after I posted that it looks that way. In fact, he is the bravest person I know for choosing to be a pilot. You all are.

My husband has over 5,000 hours of jet time with an excellent safety record and 0 incidents. He's lost engines and hydraulics and made it through. He always tells me he thinks about his family and that reminds him to take extra care in his flying. He used to tell me that when he was working with some jerk dispatchers at a small time operation, he would take measures to ensure the safety of all onboard or even refuse a trip if weather was a factor, but they may not take it too well. It was all about the customer getting what they want. Think about it, the customer has a meeting in one city and the plane is diverted to another location say 300 miles away from the destination due to weather. Is the customer going to be happy about it, or will they complain to the charter co.? The co. mgt. may not always see it the pilot's way because they are trying to build their customer base and make money. Most passengers don't know enough about weather to check it. They just care about their business and leave everything up to the pilots while they eat chocolate-covered strawberries and drink Perrier. There is no question about my husband's feelings on safety--he even advised a pilot not to take a trip due to weather one time. It ended up being that pilot's last trip--he didn't make it back.

I have a great deal of respect for all pilots and their families from freight dogs to airline captains. It kills me to hear about crashes, especially in 135 where I feel the risk is much higher for pilots.

I wish you all safe trips.

Thanks for clearing that up.

He makes the safety decisions while the pax eat and drink......It sounds like your husband does, well, his job!

 

[siouxicide]

Pretty misleading to throw RST ground control in there, but that's the media for you. RST is pretty close and the only controlled airport I can think of in the area with a RWY 31, but still far too distant to throw it in there as a comparison of weather conditions during that timeframe. That's sickening if they're trying to damn the pilots to John Q. Public with their "journalism".
If you ask me, their weather report from ATC sounded pretty decent, as if the storm had passed through. Who knows, we weren't there. A deer could have run onto the runway to cause a go-around, we'll never know. But the media disgusts me with their cut and paste of the audio.

 

[Andy Neill]

I didn't get the impression this was journalism at work. It is simply a tape from RST with neither addition nor deletion for the significant time period involved. Are those prejudices I see in your post.