Miracle on the Hudson: brought to you by Union workers

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No. As SWAPA has demonstrated, it's not the Union alone which makes the difference.

Yet all I read is you complaining about ALPA. So what is it with you?

No. I expect ALPA to represent the will of the pilots. Certainly we are going into an unprecedented economic downturn and that needs to be taken into cnsideration. However, when Bonuses and Payraises are still being distributed, I expect my Union to come back with my piece of the pie.

Whos will? Your will? Hardly.. you are not even an ALPA pilot yet you feel you have the knowledge to speak against the orgainzation.

Of all the concessionary agreements during the BK era, ALPA has done exactly what the membership has asked.

The MEC's at each carrier asked the pilots how they wanted to deal with the BK era. The negotiating committee followed the guidance and then but the TA out to vote... the membership then voted and the TA was ratified....

What is your problem?

Yes, me the Individual Employee. SWA's number one priority is their employees. Number Two is the Customer. Happy employees make productive employees.

Sounds like you have a problem with companies. Why hate ALPA?

Let's not take it out of context, to be sure. I'm not an advocate for the slacker pilot. If the company takes care of me, I'll take care of the company...and vice versa, I'll take care of the company to make sure it's there to take care of me. But to answer your question: Yes, I still do believe it is the collective reult of individual self interest which raise the bar. Tempered with a little moderation, of course.

Again.. nothing about unions... so your real problem is with poor companies and not ALPA....

Hate is too strong a word. If ALPA can't represent my interests...so be it. I don't have any disillusions about ALPA's capabilities.

But it seems you have disillsions abot your owm capabilities... I mean, what do you do to better your pilot group at RAH? I mean you are a teamster pilot...

Priorities change and evolve. Yes, in the beginning, Safety was paramount. Today, that's fairly well nipped in the bud and I would even say is a self-perpetuating Industry. Take ALPA away and improvements will continue to be made in the Safety Arena. Money always has been a priority. Always will be. I can appreciate the econmic downturn, but as I said before, when bonuses are being doled out on mahogany row...is it wrong to want to share in the profits?

You are wrong about safety. Post facts to prove your belief is real....

So, if money is priority it seems you have a problem with the profit generator.... ie companies...

I addressed this above, the part about moderation and not being a slacker.

Yet you do nothing....but complain on FI about ALPA, or which you are not a member...

No discussion or interest? I don't see many people visiting the Union section, there's your lack of interest. Lack of discussion? Easy...it's a widely accepted truth. Again...addressing the whole money issue...refer to the "moderation" part.

Many union issues are discussed on the major and regional boards... the JBPA for example... get real...

Better? That's a subjective term. Your argument implies that UPS and FedEx are essentially business model twins, right down to the last detail. In actuality, every minute difference between the two companies played a role in the outcome of their respective contracts. One pivital difference between the two are the Management teams. What you're essentially implying is that ALPA would have been able to negotiate a better contract at UPS. That's like me saying SWAPA would negotiate a better contract at UAL. It doesn't hold water.

Look at the hourly rates between the two contracts and then look at the profit margins during the time the contracts were awarded... nice try with the SWAPA/UAL....

 

[Turtle21]

Of all the concessionary agreements during the BK era, ALPA has done exactly what the membership has asked.
....

Not so. Yawn. Typical ALPA double speak. ALPA denies the members the right to vote on something that they will likely oppose the ALPA leadership on, yet when ALPA unilaterally takes action they spout about how "you are the union".

Who is left slurping ALPA except the FPL addicts?

 

[JungleJett]

Thanks Rez, I was afraid you would disappoint me by actually having ALPA take some responsibility for their problems. You did not.....

You do a fine job of representing ALPA and their core beliefs. When they do start hiring at the National level, you will be perfect for the job. Start picking out the colors and decor for your DC office...you will have a lot of money to spend.

Enjoy the fog....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thanks Rez, I was afraid you would disappoint me by actually having ALPA take some responsibility for their problems. You did not.....

ALPA has lots of problems... why not particapte with solutions instead of chiding from the bleechers?

You do a fine job of representing ALPA and their core beliefs. When they do start hiring at the National level, you will be perfect for the job. Start picking out the colors and decor for your DC office...you will have a lot of money to spend.

Enjoy the fog....

The expenses provided by ALPA that are listed as income do aren't enouigh for me to move to DC....

You can have it!

 

[JungleJett]

By the way...

The Miracle on the Hudson was brought to you in part by.....

The United States Air Force.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

By the way...

The Miracle on the Hudson was brought to you in part by.....

The United States Air Force.

By the way

The Miracle on the Hudson was also brought to you in part by...

water.

 

[JungleJett]

Calling that fluid that is in the Hudson water is a stretch!

 

[Turtle21]

ALPA has lots of problems... why not particapte with solutions instead of chiding from the bleechers?

No. ALPA really doesn't have lots of problems. It has one. When push comes to shove, ALPA exists to be served by the pilots rather than the other way around.

If ALPA had not repeatedly and vigorously obstructed my right to vote I would have no objections to them.

Oh, wait.. how stupid of me. That is just my perspective. From ALPA's perspective they have thousands of problems... they lost thousands of dues payers. Yeah, ALPA has thousands of problems.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Calling that fluid that is in the Hudson water is a stretch!

Until Sully anointed it!

 

[JoeMerchant]

There are Sully's and there are Rez's.....We need more Sully's....

 

[realmanofgenius]

NO, the miracle on the hudson was brought to you by two geese wearing turbins on their head. there is this chain email I just got and there is a picture . it is plain as day. what more proof do you need?

I wonder if there is a sleeper cel of them at AFLAC headquarters.

 

[Linedriver]

Nice try, but no. SWAPA enjoys a very unique managment. SWA actually views, over the last decades, unions as partners in thier business model.

Good post Rez. You make some good arguments but let me ask you something. I didn't mean for my comments to come off as self serving but...why is ALPA there? It's a service entity - a service entity for the pilots.

ALPA is to assist us and represent us for OUR benefit. Really. I think that concept is missed by most. So the "I" or "me" is not the wrong point of view.

Also, if SWA sees the need in ALPA but on a contract basis, that means something. Dont you think? I know ALPA is everywhere and does a lot of stuff but isn't that kind of like extra fluff? In my opinion it's like the other 450 channels on cable that I don't watch and have to purchase so I can get the 10-20 channels I do watch.

If ALPA safety programs, though well intended and at our expense, dwarf SWAPA safety programs and both carriers enjoy fantastic safety records, who has won? In my opinion it is the union that was more strategic with their resources.

Look at it this way and it can be open for discussion. But if you view ALPA as a service and you purchased that service for 30 million a year, shouldn't you expect more than that in return? If not it's just a poor investment of resources.

Look, you seem to be very involved in ALPA and better connected - I think that is great. Maybe YOU are in the position to steer some thinking or challenge antiquated beliefs.

There is always a better way.

 

[Linedriver]

I'm trying to steer through your self-contradiction and find the logic. Either you are expecting to have a perfect, mistake-free career and feel you don't need the "protection," or you realize that pilots are human, make mistakes and need representation before management -- who'll usually sell you down the river to avoid enforecement against the company -- and the FAA.

Unions can't do much in the face of recession, terrorist attacks, criminal management, and low-cost pilots undercutting union wages, but they are better than the alternative.

I'll help you prove your point:
With the exception of JB and Skywest, name another non-union airline -- in the entire history of the commercial airline industry -- that has had better pay and QOL for their pilots than their union counterparts.

Ok, I can see how you might think my comments contridict. So I will re-word.

Of the pilots who voted for ALPA, what do you think was their motivating factor? Pay protection or job protection?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Yet all I read is you complaining about ALPA. So what is it with you?

Because Rez...you have the Cheerleaders at carriers like AirTran pedaling their BS about "Vote ALPA on board...it'll cure what ails Ya" ALPA isn't the be all, end all the cheerleaders claim it to be.

Whos will? Your will? Hardly.. you are not even an ALPA pilot yet you feel you have the knowledge to speak against the orgainzation.

Would you say it's better to bitch on the boards here...or going to work for an ALPA carrier (knowing full well what I'm getting into) and bitching in the cockpit?

Of all the concessionary agreements during the BK era, ALPA has done exactly what the membership has asked

The MEC's at each carrier asked the pilots how they wanted to deal with the BK era. The negotiating committee followed the guidance and then but the TA out to vote... the membership then voted and the TA was ratified....

What is your problem?

Do you have voting percentages for those concessionary agreements? What roll did Woerth's "Live to Fight Another Day" slogan play?

Sounds like you have a problem with companies. Why hate ALPA?

Nice twist, but no. I'm addressing your whole "selfless" approach and pointing out that personal self-interest can be a good thing. You speak of people like myself as being "Selfish" I'm just pointing out that it can be a good thing*

Again.. nothing about unions... so your real problem is with poor companies and not ALPA........

Not so fast. Nothing about Unions because I was again addressing your issue with "Selfish Pilots"
My point is that this collective interest you speak breaks down to nothing more than self interest which you bash.

But it seems you have disillsions abot your owm capabilities... I mean, what do you do to better your pilot group at RAH?

Each day I show up to work, I do the best I can in an effort to help my company grow and prosper.

You are wrong about safety. Post facts to prove your belief is real........

And ALPA had ZERO to do with this...

http://brsparachutes.com/default.aspx

There are fiancial incntives for improving safety...it's a great selling point. Today, there is too much at risk for a huge company like Boeing to try and cut corners (intentionally)

Sadlly, as has always been the case, there always will be certain safety items that are added after the fact.

So, if money is priority it seems you have a problem with the profit generator.... ie companies.......

I have an issue with the companies, in part. I also have an issue with ALPA, in part.

Yet you do nothing....but complain on FI about ALPA, or which you are not a member.......

And what of those complaing who are ALPA members? Are their grievances not valid because it's FI?

Many union issues are discussed on the major and regional boards... the JBPA for example... get real....

My thread isn't airline specific...it covers all of the pilot groups. and their concern for ALPA Staffer pay. It seems to be a big enough issue that ALPA had to form a committee on it and write an article about it. Since it does address all of ALPA, I figured it would be better suited under the general Union section.

Next week, I'll post my article about Comair's Merger Assesment Fee and the +40% of CMR pilots in bad standing with ALPA under the Regional boards.

Look at the hourly rates between the two contracts and then look at the profit margins during the time the contracts were awarded... nice try with the SWAPA/UAL....

Both Unions were up against different opponents...your rates/profit margin comarison go out the window at that point.











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[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because Rez...you have the Cheerleaders at carriers like AirTran pedaling their BS about "Vote ALPA on board...it'll cure what ails Ya" ALPA isn't the be all, end all the cheerleaders claim it to be.

Doubt it.... it seems that most pilots at FL are in favor of ALPA..... who is saying ALPA is the end all?

Would you say it's better to bitch on the boards here...or going to work for an ALPA carrier (knowing full well what I'm getting into) and bitching in the cockpit?

neither, I think pilots should man up at any carrier they are at, volunteer to make the place better than the found it....

Expecting others to do for you what you are unwilling to do for yourself is weak...

Do you have voting percentages for those concessionary agreements? What roll did Woerth's "Live to Fight Another Day" slogan play?

typical comment of yours when you have nothing to offer... the ratified concessionary TAs are enough.

Nice twist, but no. I'm addressing your whole "selfless" approach and pointing out that personal self-interest can be a good thing. You speak of people like myself as being "Selfish" I'm just pointing out that it can be a good thing*

Problem with your failed logic is currently pilots like you and a majority of all pilots operate off self interest... that is what makes union representation weak.

Most pilots think they are a Prima Donna A-Rod and ALPA is there personal Boras.

Not so fast. Nothing about Unions because I was again addressing your issue with "Selfish Pilots"
My point is that this collective interest you speak breaks down to nothing more than self interest which you bash.

Am I wrong that you are a 20 something GEN XYZ type?

Each day I show up to work, I do the best I can in an effort to help my company grow and prosper.

Does that mean stepping on your fellow pilots back to do it? Do you know how to help your company grow and defend the profession?

And ALPA had ZERO to do with this...

http://brsparachutes.com/default.aspx

There are fiancial incntives for improving safety...it's a great selling point. Today, there is too much at risk for a huge company like Boeing to try and cut corners (intentionally)

ALPA never intended to have anything to do with that....

Rather read this:

“Pilot Assistance: Do we even need it today?”​

http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/sumwalt/rls070411.htm

Sadlly, as has always been the case, there always will be certain safety items that are added after the fact.

I have an issue with the companies, in part. I also have an issue with ALPA, in part.

You have no issue with ALPA b/c you are not an ALPA member. ALPA has no obligation to you. Yet you still benefit from the DAL pilots 30MM in dues.

And what of those complaing who are ALPA members? Are their grievances not valid because it's FI?

No. Who are they but monikers. A valid grievance can be done by communicating ones elected officials.

My thread isn't airline specific...it covers all of the pilot groups. and their concern for ALPA Staffer pay. It seems to be a big enough issue that ALPA had to form a committee on it and write an article about it. Since it does address all of ALPA, I figured it would be better suited under the general Union section.

Overall staff pay has been reduced via lay offs. Of course that means resources are lost...

Next week, I'll post my article about Comair's Merger Assesment Fee and the +40% of CMR pilots in bad standing with ALPA under the Regional boards.

Can't wait...

Both Unions were up against different opponents...your rates/profit margin comarison go out the window at that point.

Your opinion..










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