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Miracle on the Hudson: brought to you by Union workers

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PCL_128 said:
Correction: the copilot thanked uSAPa. I don't believe Captain Sullenburger has mentioned uSAPa once.
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Oh and BTW Mr. PFT. here's an excerpt from the Capt's letter to the pilots of US..

As pilots and as union members, we are part of a brotherhood. I want to thank USAPA and all of its committee members who protected me and my crew during this trying time. We also thank you, our fellow pilots, for your generous show of support.



I guess he hasn't thanked usapa yet huh?//? Seriously, don't talk where you don't know.

Were you sleeping with Woerthless or mayber Herr Prater???? Play cabin boy for them or something, There has to be some reason for the high hard one towards ALPA.....geeeze.. hump someone elses leg for awhile...
 
bubbers44 said:
All pilot unions are a mess. Name one that could stand up to management and go on strike this winter? Hopefully this will change some day. Remember what it was like 20+ years ago? Hopefully some day we will go back to what we had.
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20years ago? Let's see that was about when Lorenzo was screwing over Eastern which resulted in the Eastern MEC screaming at ALPA Nat'l to endorse Clinton because Bush Sr. loved sleeping with Lorezno....

Also, Pan Am was about finished and CAL was a mess...

Is this the same 20 years you are talking about?

Look, we can sit around and wish and wonder about 20 years ago,

OR we can think about what we want this profession to be in 20 years.... and work from here...

I choose the latter



JungleJett said:
What is his background?
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When he was still a teenager he went to GIA. He is first generation airline pilot so he had no Airline Dad to tell what course to take...

He readily admits GIA was a poor move and now speaks out against it..... advising wanne be's to take another course.... given his age at the time and how he deals with it now..... is it really an issue? For some it is.... oh well.... :rolleyes:

We can talk about how GIA makes certian people miserable or we can work to make the profession better...
 
20+ years ago unions could go on strike. Things weren't great then but unions could use the only leverage they had and that was to strike. Now we can run full page ads and fly safe.
 
A union has nothing to do with the outcome. Only the training and skill of those involved. The fact that the belonged to a union is not reliant.
 
bubbers44 said:
20+ years ago unions could go on strike. Things weren't great then but unions could use the only leverage they had and that was to strike. Now we can run full page ads and fly safe.
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I think what you are trying to glorify is the regulation era... most likely the 1950s-1977. This was the highlight and golden age of the airline pilot profession.

The 80s, 90s and 2000s are quite a struggle with a few spikes or prosperity...

The problem is, most pilots are free market capitalist... we have gotten what we have asked for... the radical ups and downs of the free market...


In the end, what makes unions effective is not a small group of leaders working full time to make 75,000 pilots happy....

It is 75,000 pilots willing to invest some of their time at some level on improving the profession.

Simply put management and gov't know that apathy and individualism reign supreme with us pilots. They know how much and how far they can push our profession to be more like a skilled labor description...

Every now and then a Sully and Skiles comes along and we get caught up in euphoria, expecting our union leaders to cash in on the moment...

While 75,000 air line pilots go back to apathy, individualism and the blame game...

Until each pilot expects more of themselves we will cavitate in our mediocrcy.....
 
PCL_128 said:
They were certainly successful at bailing out, but they haven't been successful at building a functioning union. Over 2,000 USAirways pilots still refuse to pay dues. Not a single representative has been elected from the West domiciles. uSAPa is a mess.

They'll be back in another year or so. Count on it.
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Wow, it really eats you up inside knowing that your pilot brothers democratically chose to leave ALPA, doesn't it? Because we all know...ALPA was PERFECT immediately after it's inception. Give it time. The West guys, being the smart group of pilots they are, will have their say at the table.
 
Rez, quite a shocking answer from you. The Hype /Blow up ALPA at every opportunity. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect your screen name was access by the main computers in HQ.

Considering the fact that there were many of us that were/are 1st generation pilots. Who came before Pcl, and were able to be smart enough to understand what PFT was bout, and the strings attached to it. That I'm sure when he went through there was enough information out on the net, for one to became aware of it. And in essence for you to turn a blind eye, at giving a @CaB 35k or so, to fly a B1900???? And from what I understand, a double weaseled nose individual as the owner of GIA. Guess again it's an ALPA thing, they will turn their eyes at stuff when it suits them....etc etc etc
 
Crzipilot said:
Rez, quite a shocking answer from you. The Hype /Blow up ALPA at every opportunity. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect your screen name was access by the main computers in HQ.

Considering the fact that there were many of us that were/are 1st generation pilots. Who came before Pcl, and were able to be smart enough to understand what PFT was bout, and the strings attached to it. That I'm sure when he went through there was enough information out on the net, for one to became aware of it. And in essence for you to turn a blind eye, at giving a @CaB 35k or so, to fly a B1900???? And from what I understand, a double weaseled nose individual as the owner of GIA. Guess again it's an ALPA thing, they will turn their eyes at stuff when it suits them....etc etc etc
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Not a very valid reply....

GIA is a fast track... a business decision like the flight safety pay for training at so many regionals....

Many pilots have done it and you don't know who they are.... pilots continue to do it...

The point is, PCL did it, he regrets it, he speaks against it....

We all make mistakes, what we do afterwards and how we handle it is what is important....

Again, do you want to spin our collective wheels on GIA or do you want to work on making this a great profession again?
 
Crzipilot said:
Let him answer that......doubt he will....
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I've never hidden anything. In fact, I've always been completely open about it. Dumb decision a decade ago, didn't know any better, now regret it, and I speak out against it so today's newbies don't make the same mistake. Pretty simple, really.
 
PCL_128 said:
I've never hidden anything. In fact, I've always been completely open about it. Dumb decision a decade ago, didn't know any better, now regret it, and I speak out against it so today's newbies don't make the same mistake. Pretty simple, really.
Click to expand...
Mistake? Surely you empathize to some degree with today's pilot when they see it for what it is: A fast track to better pay, no?
 
It's simple. He saw an advantage to step in front of other people that weren't willing to line a $cabs pockets with cash. A mistake. I guess all the advertising and such that led you to GIA, didn't give you the feeling something was fishy???

And now, ALPA's best cheerleader is on here saying...Ohhh it's ok he's paid his pittance. And he talks out against it. Of course he does, just like ALPA lackeys, he has done what was needed to be done to leverage him at any cost against anyone else, and now he stands for what is right. GMAFB.

The only reason I can think that Rez is humping PCL leg so hard is he is helping alpa get in at airtran??? Or at least promoting it???? I mean it's friggen hypocritical of both of you, it's sickening. As long as PCL is willing to carry alpa's water, I guess he is forgiven??? Like the CO pilots etc etc???? need that revenue stream don't ya. Selling your soul out, for whatever it takes.

If I had to take a guess, I would say if alpa gets in at airtran, the next step will be pcl no longer flying as he attempts to get a career alpa position...
 
Imagine how much more hate and vitriol you could spew if he was indifferent or even remained steadfast that GIA was the right choice....
 
PCL_128 said:
I can't believe this is actually a contentious thread. Absolutely ridiculous. If all of you dissenters would get off of your collective ass and do something for your union instead of sitting around bitching about it all the time *cough*JoeyMerchant*cough*, then maybe you could improve some of the things that you perceive are wrong with your union.
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Maybe you should shut your mouth, or is it too difficult with your shoe stuck in it? You have no idea how much Joe has done for the union.
 
PCL_128 said:
You won't hear Skywest or JetBlue pilots thanking ALPA for CrewPass either, but they sure like it. You won't hear pilots thanking ALPA for wx radar, TCAS, EGPWS, etc..., but it saves lives. You won't hear a lot of pilots ever thanking their union for anything.......until they get into trouble and need the union to protect their ass.
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TCAS and GPWS may have been fought for by ALPA, but it was the FAA that mandated both, based on several accidents, both in the US and abroad. You trying to say that ALPA alone brought us TCAS or GPWS is asinine.
 
CopilotDoug said:
The cause of what? Funding Worthless' and Prater's retirement pensions? Go give you're speech to the skywest pilots. It'd probably be easier if you got down from your cross, first.

Noted.
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Don't forget, PCL and Rez defended the ALPA presidents compensation package, yet bitch about CEO salaries.
 
Again, ALPA lemmings want to take credit for everything...yet do not claim responsibility when someone bends metal or kills someone. Cannot have it both ways...ALPA is used to giving it one way..and you usually have to bent over for it.

When I was an ALPA member, I thanked them everyday for the R&D into WX Radar and GPWS. I asked to visit their R&D center but oddly no one got back to me for it.

How is ALPA's effort on fatigue issues? How many years will that take. Maybe Prater can put together a Blue Ribbon Panel and then ignore their suggestions and do what he wants anyway...sort of like the age 65 thing.

How has the profession advanced in the past 10 years? Had pay gone up...or down.

I once supported ALPA's efforts..but I saw the corrupt and selfserving leadership at nearly every level destroy what once was a proud union. A good day was when I turned in my card and threw away my pin and left ALPA behind.

As for the GIA thing...I am not surprised..at all.
 
PCL_128 said:
You won't hear Skywest or JetBlue pilots thanking ALPA for CrewPass either, but they sure like it. You won't hear pilots thanking ALPA for wx radar, TCAS, EGPWS, etc..., but it saves lives. You won't hear a lot of pilots ever thanking their union for anything.......until they get into trouble and need the union to protect their ass.
Click to expand...


TCAS was from FAA mandates, if ALPO wanted it so bad, why did cargo, like FedEx, not get included? I mean FedEx pilots put in enough dues, and it's all about the money right?

GPWS initiated from NASA, exploited by ALPO, mandated by FAA.

EGPWS mandated by the FAA.

CrewPass, tried un-successfully in Baltimore last summer and presently stalled. Besides was'nt that the aurgument for ALPO about 2 years ago?
 
AAflyer said:
Kind of like when you beat down APA....

Hypocrite...
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yup......

Now, will you send an email to your Director of Flight ops and APA officials and tell them to put pinnacle on the unlimited list?


Yes or no?
 
Why should they??? I'm sure they have their reason not to. Was at Brand X airline, and for years we took AA guys, down to S. America, never got the chance to ride a AA flight. So just because your alpa, you should have access to their jump seat?
 
To the comment, the better we feel. Hmmmm...could it be the necessary and very healthy expression of ones feelings and thoughts????

So yes, we feel better. Better that we are able to express the absolute let down from alpa that we hae experienced. You say, the union is the pilots. I say BS, been to meetings, talked to reps, tried to get things started or passed. Guess was, wasn't one of the boys, so it was swept aside, or giving lip service, because it didn't effect them, or they knew better as to what we needed.

Union work has always attracted two types of individuals:

1. type is one whom is looking at a way to advance himself, on the backs of others. Find that angle to get compensated more for doing less. (hmm kinda like PFT moth to the flame???)

2. This type is truely interested in advancing our career and sacrificially puts his time in. Watches what he charges the union, and attempts to do it most cost efficiently he can. He does not figure ways to Maximize FPL while minimizing his work. Does not feel as though the union and pilots "owe" him.

Unfortunately, the type ones have infiltrated (for a long time) and have taken hold and run alpa.
Good Luck....
 
atrdriver said:
Don't forget, PCL and Rez defended the ALPA presidents compensation package, yet bitch about CEO salaries.
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Nope. I don't care what a CEO makes, as long as he's not stealing it from me. Don't tell me I'm overpaid, and I'll return the favor.
 
PCL_128 said:
Nope. I don't care what a CEO makes, as long as he's not stealing it from me. Don't tell me I'm overpaid, and I'll return the favor.
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So, PCL, what if you were severely underpaid, and it was ALPA who negotiated that pay rate for ya? What if during that time your CEO and your ALPA reps were cashing in BIG.....what then?

Hard to believe I'm even posting to your airtranny.alpa.wannabe.pft.fi.com.smart@$$.know.it.all self, but there it is......
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
So the better you can beat ALPA down, the better you feel? Why is that?
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Overall?

Because ALPO sucks, a myraid of reasons why.

I mean, really numerous reasons, but probably the biggest is Prater's disgusting pay package and the life time pension to past presidents.

Oh, and the glaring conflict of interest between the regionals and the legacys, amongst many others. Dues money driven of course, it's all about the money for ALPO!

You asked.....
 
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