mil turboprop vs. civ jet experience

[RichO]

I would really think about going into the Reserves/Guard from active duty. It keeps you flying, and if the airline you get on with goes under, you can still pay the bills.

 

[pilotyip]

Smart move

Saved my butt when I was "Between Jobs", plus the retirement is nice, I get to see a direct deposit in my account each month now that I have hit 60

 

[skywiz]

reply

Quote by Enigma:
"Excuse me, but what's that supposed to mean? Are you too good to fly an regional jet? Do you have some God given RIGHT to going straight to a major?"


No one is saying someone is too good to fly a regional jet. Lets take a look at requirements (these days) to get hired by a regional... mabye 1200-1400 hrs(200 or so multi piston I believe)... Heck, I know guys that get that many hours in 2 years after getting their private license.

You are saying a guy with 2 yrs civilian experience flying pistons is just as qualified as a military fixed wing pilot with 10 yrs turbine/pic experience not to mention a strenuous training program? In other words, an ex mil pilot should only expect to get a job that a 2 year civilian pilot could get?
Before I joined the Navy, I was a CFI with about 1000 hrs and there is a reason why mil pilots are able to go directly to a major. I didn't say it was their RIGHT to go, but I believe after 8-10 years experience, they are well qualified for that position just like a regional captain would be.

 

[ASH]

1200 is not competetive for most Jet operators right now.....two years......put down the pipe.

 

[Snakum]

1200 is not competetive for most Jet operators right now.....two years......put down the pipe.

Uh ... you might wanna step away from that stuff too. And after you do, take a gander at the times listed on aviationinterviews.com for guys and gals going to CHQ, TSA, ASA, Eagle, etc. And two years is plenty enough time to amass 1200 hours at a decent flightschool, even in Podunk, NC. I see it all the time.

Minhberg

 

[1-tacan-rule]

clarification

I think all the military guys are trying to say is that if you compare two pilots:

LT Smith: gets out of military at 32 years old at first chance when committment is up. Flew for seven years @ 400hrs/year = 2800 hours. In that flying he spent half of his first tour and all of his second tour (5 years total) as PIC in demanding environment making tough operational decisions beyond the typical 121 operator.

Civilian Jones: ramp monkey since 18 getting all the time he can hanging out at FBO. Picks up CFI and continues to get time. Lucks into some twin time and 1200 hours later he gets hired by a regional. Flies 1000hrs/year CRJ (or similar). Now he's 28/29 with buukuu time (lets say 4000ish).

Should the civilian be looked at more favorably for a job because he has more time. It should all be balanced...he flew tons more but in less time....he has a bunch in 152s/172s light twin...he's flying pt to pt with main decisions being where to pick around weather.

The LTdid his time too...and just because he has less time does not make him a lessor product.

thats all. (sound of feet stepping off soapbox)

 

[Varmint]

I think all the military guys are trying to say is that if you compare two pilots:

LT Smith: gets out of military at 32 years old at first chance when committment is up. Flew for seven years @ 400hrs/year = 2800 hours. In that flying he spent half of his first tour and all of his second tour (5 years total) as PIC in demanding environment making tough operational decisions beyond the typical 121 operator.

Civilian Jones: ramp monkey since 18 getting all the time he can hanging out at FBO. Picks up CFI and continues to get time. Lucks into some twin time and 1200 hours later he gets hired by a regional. Flies 1000hrs/year CRJ (or similar). Now he's 28/29 with buukuu time (lets say 4000ish).

Should the civilian be looked at more favorably for a job because he has more time. It should all be balanced...he flew tons more but in less time....he has a bunch in 152s/172s light twin...he's flying pt to pt with main decisions being where to pick around weather.

The LTdid his time too...and just because he has less time does not make him a lessor product.

thats all. (sound of feet stepping off soapbox)

There are tons more civilian applicants out there than military. Interviews seem to be balanced between military, 121, 135, civilian. In a totally fair environment, interview classes would be filled based on the percentage of applications received from each group.

Military guys have to worry about dog fighting and other decisions that I don't have a clue about. However, civilian pilots have experience flying passengers, dealing with passengers, and dealing with situations that occur in normal line operations (ie medical emergencies...etc) In addition, civilians are used to the "fire hose" approach to learning a new aircraft as opposed to having an extended period of time to learn an aircraft.

With that said, the military puts out quality pilots and should be given equal preferences to a civilian pilot. There are arguments out there that military guys should be given preference because of their service to the country. Nobody forced anyone to join the military, it was a choice. All of us civilians (not just pilots) chipped in to pay for your training and your salaries by paying our taxes every year. While I appreciate and admire the decision to serve our country, I don't feel it should be a free ticket to hop to the front of the line for an interview at a quality company at the end of your tour of service.

 

[satpak77]

mil v. civ

jesus chr1st when will this argument ever die

life goes on

 

[enigma]

For anyone who wants to take a shot...

I was wondering for future reference if there is a possibility that minimums might change for getting into the majors. For example, instead of 1000 hrs pic turbine, could it change to 1000 hrs pic turbine jet time?

Reason I ask is that with this recent explosion of the CRJ / ERJs and more "regional guys" getting experience with EFIS / Glass panels / jet time, would it hurt guys ex military guys who have pic time in C-130s, P-3s and E-2s?

If mins did change and majors required glass experience and jet time, are ex mil turboprop pilots supposed to go get nickel and dime wages at a regional prior to getting picked up at a major?

No one is saying someone is too good to fly a regional jet. Lets take a look at requirements (these days) to get hired by a regional... mabye 1200-1400 hrs(200 or so multi piston I believe)... Heck, I know guys that get that many hours in 2 years after getting their private license.

You are saying a guy with 2 yrs civilian experience flying pistons is just as qualified as a military fixed wing pilot with 10 yrs turbine/pic experience not to mention a strenuous training program? In other words, an ex mil pilot should only expect to get a job that a 2 year civilian pilot could get?
Before I joined the Navy, I was a CFI with about 1000 hrs and there is a reason why mil pilots are able to go directly to a major. I didn't say it was their RIGHT to go, but I believe after 8-10 years experience, they are well qualified for that position just like a regional captain would be.

Skywiz. Sorry, but you need to re-read your posts. I'm short of time, so I will try and make this short: I don't think that your posted words are congruent with your thoughts on the subject. You post one thought and come back and argue another. I did not argue the qualification point with you. I only objected to your implication that a military trained pilot should be able to bypass the regionals.

You are trying to compare an 8 year military vet with a fresh out of flight school CFI. Let me give you a better comparison. Me. I've flown professionally for the last 17 years. The last 14 years, I was employed by either a scheduled passenger carrier, or by a well-funded corporate jet operator. I've flown PEOPLE, in t-props and jets for 14 years and have accumulated a bunch of time, and landings. My Learjet employer flew short hops, and I worked there six years. Just like those low time mil pilots you are defending, my years of service are high, my time was low. In the other eight years of my turbine career, I've flown airliners ranging from a Beech1300 to an 164 seat MD80. During my tenure in both scheduled and Part91 corporate, I've attended the best training money could buy. I've done the altitude chamber, etc. (as an aside, only if I'd been intelligent enough to get the bachelors early instead of flying, I'd probably be a Major Captain instead of a LCC Captain)

I'm the guy you are competing against when you go for SWA, B6, FedEx, etc. Not the RJ pilot only two years out of flight school. Notice, that I didn't say that I was better qualified. I only want to make you think about your question and the subsequent follow up.

regards,
enigma

 

[pilotyip]

On the button

Enigma hit it on the button, airlines hire pilots who they have a high confidence in that they will become a successful employee. Airlines have had a high sucess rate with mil pilots, but they also have a high sucess rate with pilots with lots of 121 PIC time or TJ PIC time. That is what you need to be in the ball park at the majors (pun)