mil turboprop vs. civ jet experience

[skywiz]

and the thread continues..

Enigma,

You say I bring up one point in a post and then argue another. First of all, I initially asked a question in general about competitiveness of tprop time to jet time.

You come back and think in my post that just because I hope to avoid a gig at a regional, I think I am too good to fly an RJ. And then you think my post is flamebait.

Quote by Enigma:
" I did not argue the qualification point with you. I only objected to your implication that a military trained pilot should be able to bypass the regionals."

In response to this, I respond to why I think an ex mil pilot should in most cases be able to bypass the reg. carriers. My argument that military pilots are able to bypass regionals is based on experience gained in active duty flying. This is called "backing up" my statement. (in response to your reply)

What I don't understand is why you write a whole page on your qualifications and what you have flown. While I agree that you have great experience and that you are obviously highly qualified, what is relevent about your quals to the latter argument I was responding to? I never at anytime was refering to you or your experience. I never said you weren't qualified for any type of job. This has nothing to do with you.

Quote from Enigma: "You are trying to compare an 8 year military vet with a fresh out of flight school CFI. Let me give you a better comparison."

(actually a fresh out of flight school CFI is not qualified to go to a regional...I was talking about a CFI with 1200-1400 hrs. - if you are going to respond, at least quote me correctly)

But, back to the quote, you are absolutely right! I AM NOT comparing an 8 yr mil vet with YOU! I am comparing an ex mil pilot with someone who is competitive for a regional. (Hence a 1400 hr CFI!) If you agree that a CFI does not compare to an 8 yr mil pilot (like you said) AND that CFI is qualified enough for a regional job, then why would an ex mil pilot expect or accept that fact that they need to spend time at a regional??? - this is my whole point. Put the pieces together. Nothing personal.

-skywiz

 

[OUjetdrvr]

Skywiz,

Just remember, experience in this industry is measured on FLIGHT TIME not "passage of time"! In your 8-10 yrs in the mil how many shore/ground billets did you do? You definately were not flying all the time! So in that respect, yes, a 2 yr civ pilot is just about as well experienced as a 10 yr mil flyer. Flying light twins in crappy weather with little or no radar and/or icing conditions will build experience in no time!

I am a regional pilot, who over four years, has flown with many prior mil. guys that made me cringe with their "piloting" skills! But I have flown with many who were just fine as well. I am not trying to bash you , just let you know that just because your mil doesnt alwasy mean your above all else! There are obviously good and bad in all sorts of pilot groups. Please dont generalize...There are many Reg. Capts and senior FOs that are just as qualified...just without the connections afforded some. Good luck!

 

[OUjetdrvr]

Oh I forgot one critical and ugly point.

IN light of the current trend in the industry, with majors shrinking and regionals and LCCs expanding. You may have no choice but lend your experienced piloting skills to any number of regionals currently hiring!

 

[enigma]

But, back to the quote, you are absolutely right! I AM NOT comparing an 8 yr mil vet with YOU! I am comparing an ex mil pilot with someone who is competitive for a regional. (Hence a 1400 hr CFI!) If you agree that a CFI does not compare to an 8 yr mil pilot (like you said) AND that CFI is qualified enough for a regional job, then why would an ex mil pilot expect or accept that fact that they need to spend time at a regional??? - this is my whole point. Put the pieces together. Nothing personal.

-skywiz

Again wiz, I'm going to suggest that you are arguing two different issues. You wrote, "I am comparing an ex mil pilot with someone who is competitive for a regional."
I respond. YOUR FIRST POST WASN'T ABOUT REGIONAL HIRING, IT WAS ABOUT MAJOR HIRING. I wrote about my experience to show you that I was the competition for a major job, not the 1400 hour CFI. I was, and am, discussing your points as they pertain to MAJOR airline hiring.

Let me leave it at this. Are you more qualified to Captain an MD80, or 737 than am I?

Now, go back and read your first post. I have and I still see it as an arrogant statement.

Also, nothing personal.

regards,
enigma

 

[FedExpert]

Don't you hardcore civies worry. Before too many years if we continue this downward spiral in the majors, you will have it all to yourselves. Few self respecting military guys will give up thier good military pay flying or options in a non-flying job to fly for a regional or regional-level pay with no good prospects. Just because you have the financial backing to pay for your ratings, earn little and survive for years on that, and pay your way through any check ride busts, doesn't mean it will be worth it in the end.

 

[OUjetdrvr]

OK I was trying to be civil but I will respond with this. I am sorry to say your slightly mistaken sir. You "major" pilots are pricing yourself out of the business! Its the nature of the beast, ECONOMICS. And I am not taking about Majors to Regionals but Majors to LCCs too! Its no fault of the regional scrappy just poor timing on many aspects. The system is simply resetting itself, the scales are being tared! You describe most civilian pilots as having silver spoons in their mouths. Uhm, "Hello pot, this is the kettle" By the way I have never heard of buying my through check ride busts, but then I always come prepared!
If we had a little more support from the big kids on the block during contract negotiations maybe we could help "preserve the profession" instead of being kicked in the teeth and blamed for the current direction of the industry.
Respectfully submitted,

 

[TheTIC]

Stay in the military

The way pilot pay scales are going, stay in the military. I thought going to the civilian world would mean about 150% increase in pay (after a few years at the bottom of the pay scale). Now, I don't think I will make more take home the I did as an 0-4. Oh, plus the retirements at the airlines are all going away (probably).

So learn Arabic and decide on your favorite 120 degree country and stay in the military.

Oh, by the way will anyone hire me

 

[FedExpert]

Sooners yeah, regionals no. Its just not worth it. Your are also right about the economics. Business will be able to recuit cheaper pilots while guys insist that we are making too much/enough and don't fight for more. That is why I am rooting for Delta pilots, the only ones in this business who still have backbone. And, not to mention, until Kit Darby and Co stop telling guys that everything is good and getting better.

 

[:-)]

I have over 8 years in a Part25 airplanes. I think I'll call up the Pentagon and demand that they put me into the left seat of a C17 immediately if not sooner. With me having all of the heavy time I've got, I see no reason to waste my time flying anything lesser in the military fleet.

Do you guys think I've got a chance, or will I have to demean myself and fly a T1 first?

And another thing, I don't want to start out at the bottom of the rank list either, I demand to be a "street" General Officer. There, now I feel better.

bottoms up,
Calvin






Note: Calvin's just joshing you army brats. I love you, and thank you for your service.

Hobbes

 

[Dizel8]

While you are at it, ask for a raise!

As for me, I will not acept anything less than Space Shuttle Commander!