whymeworry?
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
- Posts
- 701
AA717driver said:WhatMeworry--You are getting wrong info on the flowthrough/flowback agreement.
The agreement is a four-party agreement between AA management, APA, Eagle management and Eagle ALPA. It is part of both parties' working agreements.
The flowthrough was intended to allow Eagle pilots to reserve a seniority number at AA when they upgraded at Eagle and eventually (I know one requirement is for a newhire class at AA to be held) move to AA. I doubt anyone at the time could have envisioned stagnation on the scale we are seeing at AA (couldn't happen here, right?).
The flowback was meant to mitigate a small number of furloughs like in the early '90's. Again, no one intended for AE to absorb the huge number of furloughs we have seen in the past 5 years.
BUT, despite what was thought at the time, the agreement exists and has been interpreted to allow for as many flowbacks to Eagle as there are "new" captain seats available. Unfortunately for the Eagle guys, the flowbacks started at exactly the same time as a major expansion at Eagle. Yet another of those "harmonic convergences" in aviation that can really f-up your career.
On the issue of APA and AMR negotiating a JFJ deal without consulting Eagle, that is true. With the concessions of 2003 were coming down the pike, the APA nego. comm. was instructed to work out an agreement that would benefit ALL parties involved.
In Nov. 2002, APA knew the furloughs would continue and that the arbitrary "required qualifications" imposed by Eagle management would be met by those soon to be hitting the street so EA could no longer reject those without the "required" amount of flight time.
At this point, APA tried to contact the Eagle MEC with the intent of negotiating a "soft landing" for both groups (the interpretation of the flowback agreement by APA legal advisors indicated an unlimited number of flowbacks would be allowed).
The Eagle MEC refused to return APA's phone calls. In fact, it came down to Eagle telling APA they'd see them in court--"you won't get ANY flowbacks". One of the offers from APA was to limit the number of flowbacks to 125. I believe that's when the Eagle MEC made the above comment.
In any event, after that, APA was determined to secure as many flowback positions as possible and the rest is history. The issue went to a neutral arbitrator and he ruled in favor of APA.
The next big event is when the four-party agreement expires in the next year or two. Do those not on the property retain their seniority numbers after the agreement drops dead? Must Eagle keep the flowbacks in their positions despite having bottom of the list seniority numbers. It's going to be interesting.TC
P.S.--I was at most of the APA BOD meetings from Nov. '02 until the concessionary agreement was signed in Mar. '03. The rest of the time I got my info from a friend on the APA Nego. Comm. I'm sure many won't like my recitation of the events above but that's what I saw and what my friend has seen.
I have no dog in this fight. I didn't take the flowback and only one person I know is not counting the seconds until they can get out of Eagle.
And, yes, the TWA guys are getting their years of service for pay purposes. To a man, they regret that this had to happen and treat their FO's as professionals. If they don't, they get a blanket party in the parking lot. That's how WE do things.
Well, I appreciate you clarifying the events that lead up to the flowback/J4J deal. Of course, when I was at a Regional I got a different version of the story. And I do remember reading a statement put out by the ALPA Eagle MEC blasting the APA for not consulting them. While I don't dispute what your telling me is true, since you had good inside info, I do find it hard to beleive that the Eagle MEC would outright refuse to meet with the APA unless they were told to accept the unacceptable. Of course, the Eagle pilots should recognize that the only reason their block hours were going up was at the expense of AA mainline flying, hence their boon in new flying was at the expense of their flow-back brothers and sisters... so there has to be some accomadation of those pilots.
I have heard both sides of the story from Eagle pilots and from AA pilots. I really don't know who to beleive anymore. That said, like yourself, I don't have a dog in this one either. I have never worked for Eagle, I would never work for Eagle (great pilots, sh!tty mgmt) and I don't have any friends who work for Eagle... at least that I know of.
Regardless, if AA pilots are "reporting' Eagle F/Os such behaviopr is rather pathetic.
