Midwest or stay at Eagle

[1800 RVR]

Hey bluejuice,

Yes, I'm at UPS. I am very fortunate to have gotten here. I count my blessings every day.

I'm sorry that I did let emotion into my original post. Every company has its bad elements. Even UPS. The point that I was try to show is that if you have senority at Eagle, think long and hard about leaving that behind. Senority is the difference between getting furloughed and staying employed with a paycheck. To me, that's what counts. Not commuting and being based in your hometown is a HUGE plus. I just think that the industry is just too volatile to make this kind of a jump. If it was Airtran or Jetblue, I would say go in a heartbeat. Personally, I don't think MidEx is out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. I think that there are too many ?'s still in their biz plan. For the sake of all my friends that are still there, I hope they make it. I hate to see fellow pilots get the shaft for managment decisions not to increase fares to a sustainable level. (oops, sorry, that emotion thing is coming out again).

Good luck in your decision. This is a tough one. If you have any questions, let me know.

 

[Taildragon]

Bluejuice,
Midwest had their 3Q earnings webcast, you can access it though their website. About us/ investors-to access it

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Bluejuice,
Midwest had their 3Q earnings webcast, you can access it though their website. About us/ investors-to access it

Not exactly correct...

Midwest's Q3 Earnings Conference call is scheduled for Thursday, October 27th at 2pm ET.

HMM

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Live in base
no commute
bigger,more employable aircraft for the future.

For me, not to commute, fly from my home town or town of my residence. I would do it for the QOL alone. Plus, the money is the same or better and schedule will be better than AE, especially sleeping in your own master bedroom with no roomates. Just think about it, you go out for a long trip, come back and there is still milk and toilet paper in the house,. Priceless!

I say go for Midwest.
Fresh cookies and more money is where its at.:nuts:

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

This is a tough call. I would have advised said friend to be careful to who and when he applies. Midwest is still not out of the woods and I would advise anyone looking at them now to sit and wait until next year. But it all depends on your situation. The analyst expectations for Midwest are for losses next year but the debt to equity ratio looks good. If your friend turns down Midwest now he burns that bridge.

 

[Capt. Over]

to ME or not to ME....that is the question

Well, here goes...for what it's worth.

I was hired in 2001 and heard the same things everyone else heard. "We are doubling our pilot group and you'll most likely upgrade in 2 years." Guess what, this was all true at the time. One of my best friends upgraded in 18 months on the 9 and I would have been not far behind him had it not been for our industry taking a nasty turn 6 months after I was hired. We all know that the whole industry, no matter where you work, is a day to day venture. Having said that I can't see as how waiting until next year will do you any good. Hell, next year ain't gonna be any "tell tale" year. We won't see anything major changing for a LONG time. We could file chapter 11 tomorrow and, like everyone else in bankruptcy, still be flying for a long time after that.

As far as "taking a look around and seeing who is hiring" to make a decision as to where to go. News flash....there's like a handful of places hiring. If you were getting an interview at UPS or FedEx or Southwest fine, but for many folks the opportunites aren't out there very often. I personally don't think JetBlue is going to be any golden ticket. Those who say we aren't out of the woods yet, which I would agree with, need to realize that with very few exceptions the whole industry is camped out in those same "woods" and I think JetBlue is going to join the picnic sometime soon.

I do know that the money is not the same here as at Eagle. And as far as furlough protection, yeah you may have some better staying power at Eagle but I know lots of people flying at different regionals that are hearing the "F word" which, up until recently, was only heard at the mainline carriers. I just had three friends interview and get hired that are all currently Captains with high seniority at the regional I was at and they can't wait to start class. They just don't want to be stuck at a regional their whole career without giving it a shot. Who knows what the hell will happen at any carrier these days.

Having said all that, I was furloughed for 3.5 years and am back now. I love it here and have always been treated extraordinarily well by the entire company. Management problems? Sure, but show me a company that doesn't have those and I'll join you in Fantasy Land! It's a good place to work and I'll be here as long as they let me stay. Good luck with your decision, I just want to tell you, we're all counting on you.

 

[AA717driver]

WhatMeworry--You are getting wrong info on the flowthrough/flowback agreement.

The agreement is a four-party agreement between AA management, APA, Eagle management and Eagle ALPA. It is part of both parties' working agreements.

The flowthrough was intended to allow Eagle pilots to reserve a seniority number at AA when they upgraded at Eagle and eventually (I know one requirement is for a newhire class at AA to be held) move to AA. I doubt anyone at the time could have envisioned stagnation on the scale we are seeing at AA (couldn't happen here, right? ).

The flowback was meant to mitigate a small number of furloughs like in the early '90's. Again, no one intended for AE to absorb the huge number of furloughs we have seen in the past 5 years.

BUT, despite what was thought at the time, the agreement exists and has been interpreted to allow for as many flowbacks to Eagle as there are "new" captain seats available. Unfortunately for the Eagle guys, the flowbacks started at exactly the same time as a major expansion at Eagle. Yet another of those "harmonic convergences" in aviation that can really f-up your career.

On the issue of APA and AMR negotiating a JFJ deal without consulting Eagle, that is true. With the concessions of 2003 were coming down the pike, the APA nego. comm. was instructed to work out an agreement that would benefit ALL parties involved.

In Nov. 2002, APA knew the furloughs would continue and that the arbitrary "required qualifications" imposed by Eagle management would be met by those soon to be hitting the street so EA could no longer reject those without the "required" amount of flight time.

At this point, APA tried to contact the Eagle MEC with the intent of negotiating a "soft landing" for both groups (the interpretation of the flowback agreement by APA legal advisors indicated an unlimited number of flowbacks would be allowed).

The Eagle MEC refused to return APA's phone calls. In fact, it came down to Eagle telling APA they'd see them in court--"you won't get ANY flowbacks". One of the offers from APA was to limit the number of flowbacks to 125. I believe that's when the Eagle MEC made the above comment.

In any event, after that, APA was determined to secure as many flowback positions as possible and the rest is history. The issue went to a neutral arbitrator and he ruled in favor of APA.

The next big event is when the four-party agreement expires in the next year or two. Do those not on the property retain their seniority numbers after the agreement drops dead? Must Eagle keep the flowbacks in their positions despite having bottom of the list seniority numbers. It's going to be interesting.TC

P.S.--I was at most of the APA BOD meetings from Nov. '02 until the concessionary agreement was signed in Mar. '03. The rest of the time I got my info from a friend on the APA Nego. Comm. I'm sure many won't like my recitation of the events above but that's what I saw and what my friend has seen.

I have no dog in this fight. I didn't take the flowback and only one person I know is not counting the seconds until they can get out of Eagle.

And, yes, the TWA guys are getting their years of service for pay purposes. To a man, they regret that this had to happen and treat their FO's as professionals. If they don't, they get a blanket party in the parking lot. That's how WE do things.

 

[English]

TC, I'm usually on board with what you write, but, as the someone who was very close to a member of the Eagle MEC during that time, I think you have some of your facts skewed. Specifically the part about the Eagle MEC not returning phone calls.

Anyway, no matter which side of the fence one chooses (APA v AE ALPA), I think the original poster should jump ship. I've never met a single pilot who voluntarily left Eagle and wasn't in a better place.

 

[Captain Overs]

I've been here at Eagle for 6 years and I'm in the process of leaving to work overseas, I don't like to leave the country but I'll work anywhere just to get out of here(Eagle). Here are the reasons why I want to leave:
1. No upgrade
2. No money for FO ($30,000/year for a 6 year FO)
3. You have to fly with scAAbs
4. Unhappy co-workers (gate agents, FAs, rampers, etc.
5. The flight time I'm getting are not valuable to any major airlines. (SIC on a regional jet)
To the guy that post about Eagle going into "BANKRUPTSY" next year, you must know something I don't know, so tell us what it is.

He does know something we don't. A different spelling for bankruptcy.

 

[Swaayze]

We should meet sometime English..........