Midwest or stay at Eagle

[Chuck Yogourt]

Well, not a true $26.9M loss. Part of that loss is attributed to impairment charges (paper loss) of $15.6M related to the pending retirement of two MD-81's in December. The net loss relating to cash lost appears to only be $11.3M.

As for unrestricted cash exiting Q3, here's a quote from the press release:

"The company ended the quarter with $76.2 million in unrestricted cash, down from $84.7 million on June 30, 2005 and $81.5 million at December 31, 2004 -- primarily due to seasonal fluctuations in the business and continued fuel cost increases. Capital spending -- net of credits used to fund such spending -- resulted in a cash outlay of $7.1 million for the nine months and consisted primarily of costs associated with the acquisition of additional spare parts for the Boeing 717 fleet, purchase of an MD-80 engine, and equipment and leasehold improvements for the in-house dining services program."

So, it appears we didn't lose as much unrestricted cash as I had anticipated. However, that still doesn't mean we're out of danger yet. I don't know what the SLT in the Cookie Palace has planned on reducing our continued losses. Guess we'll find out during the Q4 and Year End conference call in January.

Good luck to all in the Midwest family.

HMM

We will need luck to right this sinking ship. Loses continue to mount and those in charge are clueless on what to do next. We are filling planes and advance bookings look great but they mean nothing if you are charging nothing for those seats. Fuel will continue to hurt us for the forseeable future. We have quit growing in MKE due to tax fight with the liberal idiots of Wisconsin. We have 5 more 717's coming with no new routes or ideas as to what to do with them. My gut feeling is this company has a year to a year and a half to get their act together or the bottom feeders like Air Tran will be there to pick off the leftovers.

 

[ShadowFlight]

We will need luck to right this sinking ship. Loses continue to mount and those in charge are clueless on what to do next. We are filling planes and advance bookings look great but they mean nothing if you are charging nothing for those seats. Fuel will continue to hurt us for the forseeable future. We have quit growing in MKE due to tax fight with the liberal idiots of Wisconsin. We have 5 more 717's coming with no new routes or ideas as to what to do with them. My gut feeling is this company has a year to a year and a half to get their act together or the bottom feeders like Air Tran will be there to pick off the leftovers.

With approximately $76M remaining in unrestricted cash and conservatively forecasting a cash burn of $15M per quarter, we would have a zero cash balance 15 months from now.

I certainly hope management gets a clue very soon or we'll be an afterthought before too long.

Peace

SF

 

[runwayjockey]

We have quit growing in MKE due to tax fight with the liberal idiots of Wisconsin.

I thought that was Northwest's doing when they took on the state of Wisconsin in court saying your tax breaks were unconstitutional? What do the lib's have to do with that?

Top court to review airline tax ruling
By TOM DAYKIN
[email protected]
Posted: May 26, 2005
A judge's ruling striking down tax breaks for two Wisconsin-based airlines will be reviewed by the state Supreme Court.



The court said Thursday it will hear an appeal of a Dane County Circuit Court ruling in 2003 saying property tax exemptions for Midwest Airlines Inc. (stock: MEH) in Oak Creek and Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. in Appleton were unconstitutional.

The exemption was challenged in a lawsuit by Egan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Inc. Northwest contended it should not have to pay about $1.6 million in property taxes for its Wisconsin operations because the Legislature had exempted Midwest and Air Wisconsin.

State officials said Northwest did not qualify for the tax break because it didn't have a Wisconsin hub or meet other criteria, such as having 15 non-stop destinations from Wisconsin.

Northwest, however, said it has a large presence in Wisconsin and that it was not fair to exempt its competitors from paying property taxes.

Midwest executives have said the airline will reconsider its growth plans in the state if the exemption isn't restored.

Midwest and Northwest are the No. 1 and No. 2 carriers at Milwaukee's Mitchell International Airport. Air Wisconsin provides regional jet service for United Airlines under the United Express name but is phasing out of that contract and will serve as a regional carrier for US Airways Group Inc."

 

[FN FAL]

I'm to tired to read the thread to see if this has been posted already, so appologies in advance if it has. Don't shoot the messenger, I just noticed the story on the way to turning off the computer.

Midwest Air Group's losses double in third quarter
MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Midwest Air Group Inc. lost twice as much money in the third quarter as it did the same quarter last year, hurt by competition and record fuel costs, the company said in its earnings report Thursday.

The operator of Midwest Airlines and Midwest Connect said it had a net loss of $26.9 million for the third quarter compared to a loss of $13.4 million a year ago. Its loss per share was $1.54 in this quarter compared to 77 cents in the third quarter last year.

The loss included $15.6 million due to the planned retirement of two MD-81 aircraft in December. One is for sale and the other will be used for charter operations until next May and then sold, the company said.

Without the charge, the airline lost $11.3 million, roughly in line with expectations of analysts polled by Thomson Financial, who expected a loss of 64 cents a share, or about $11.2 million.


After the earnings announcement, Midwest shares rose 6 cents, or 3.2 percent, to close at $1.95 on the American Stock Exchange.Midwest reported a revenue increase of 32 percent to $136.6 million. The company said price cuts and schedule and service enhancements caused a 46.6 percent increase in passenger traffic over a year ago.

"We achieved significant increases in revenue, traffic and passenger loads," said Midwest chairman and chief executive officer Tim Hoeksema. "However, the highly competitive industry environment and record fuel costs ... contributed to a difficult quarter from a profitability perspective."

Fuel costs increased by $19.7 million, or 69.1 percent, to $48 million, with the higher prices of fuel accounting for $13.4 million of the rise, the company said.

The company ended the quarter with $76.2 million in unrestricted cash, down from $84.7 million at the end of June, which it blamed on seasonal fluctuations in the business and higher fuel costs.

Milwaukee-based Midwest serves 47 U.S. cities through hubs in Milwaukee and Kansas City, Mo.

xxxxxx

 

[plucky]

Looks like Eagle will keep your paycheck coming longer then Midwest with these numbers.

 

[crashpad]

FRONTIER posted a $6.9 million quarterly profit yesterday.

Just wanted to spread the sunshine!

 

[Ty Webb]

My gut feeling is this company has a year to a year and a half to get their act together or the bottom feeders like Air Tran will be there to pick off the leftovers.

Chuckles, obviously your views are shared by your management, and that's the reason that, in another 12 months, you and your "Cookie Palace" managers can all sit over at the Dew Drop Inn on Howell Ave and cry into your Old Styles about what a great airline you had, and how those "bottom feeders" took over "your" airplanes and then put sand in your vaseline. After reading your stinking diatribes on this board for the past year, I won't feel sorry for you at all.

Our management has tried to work a deal with your management for a while, but they'd rather keep hoping and praying for a miracle than make a deal wid "dat ol' debbil AirTrans".

The end result is that we will be there to pick up the pieces, but you and your management will have squandered your chance to be a part of a successful airline, all because of this stupid pre-conceived notion that you are somehow "better" than AirTran. Better at what? Better at losing money, that's what. Face it- the market has spoken. Price is king. We may not like it, but this is a business, not a charity.

Maybe once you're unemployed, you'll actually take a look at our contract. I'd love to see the look on your face when you realize that you would have had an improvement in pretty much every category across the board- pay, rigs, work rules, etc. . . . and that's before our Contract 2005 improvements are done.

Have a nice life, Chuckie Boy, somewhere else.

 

[runwayjockey]

Chuck may be a putz, but you take the cake.

Absolutely Disgusting!

Chuckles, obviously your views are shared by your management, and that's the reason that, in another 12 months, you and your "Cookie Palace" managers can all sit over at the Dew Drop Inn on Howell Ave and cry into your Old Styles about what a great airline you had, and how those "bottom feeders" took over "your" airplanes and then put sand in your vaseline. After reading your stinking diatribes on this board for the past year, I won't feel sorry for you at all.

Our management has tried to work a deal with your management for a while, but they'd rather keep hoping and praying for a miracle than make a deal wid "dat ol' debbil AirTrans".

The end result is that we will be there to pick up the pieces, but you and your management will have squandered your chance to be a part of a successful airline, all because of this stupid pre-conceived notion that you are somehow "better" than AirTran. Better at what? Better at losing money, that's what. Face it- the market has spoken. Price is king. We may not like it, but this is a business, not a charity.

Maybe once you're unemployed, you'll actually take a look at our contract. I'd love to see the look on your face when you realize that you would have had an improvement in pretty much every category across the board- pay, rigs, work rules, etc. . . . and that's before our Contract 2005 improvements are done.

Have a nice life, Chuckie Boy, somewhere else.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yawn . . . . That post was directed at Chuck, not the Midex pilot group.

I'll bet he flys every trip with a different FO but can't figure out why.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

Yawn . . . . That post was directed at Chuck, not the Midex pilot group.

I'll bet he flys every trip with a different FO but can't figure out why.

Actually, I don't have a problem with anyone I fly with but thanks for caring. I am glad to know you are a finacial brain and can tell the Midwest people what we don't see. But before you do that, you might want to ask why your airline lost money this quarter also. Until then, take a hike your freaking maggot.

 

[whymeworry?]

WhatMeworry--You are getting wrong info on the flowthrough/flowback agreement.

The agreement is a four-party agreement between AA management, APA, Eagle management and Eagle ALPA. It is part of both parties' working agreements.

The flowthrough was intended to allow Eagle pilots to reserve a seniority number at AA when they upgraded at Eagle and eventually (I know one requirement is for a newhire class at AA to be held) move to AA. I doubt anyone at the time could have envisioned stagnation on the scale we are seeing at AA (couldn't happen here, right? ).

The flowback was meant to mitigate a small number of furloughs like in the early '90's. Again, no one intended for AE to absorb the huge number of furloughs we have seen in the past 5 years.

BUT, despite what was thought at the time, the agreement exists and has been interpreted to allow for as many flowbacks to Eagle as there are "new" captain seats available. Unfortunately for the Eagle guys, the flowbacks started at exactly the same time as a major expansion at Eagle. Yet another of those "harmonic convergences" in aviation that can really f-up your career.

On the issue of APA and AMR negotiating a JFJ deal without consulting Eagle, that is true. With the concessions of 2003 were coming down the pike, the APA nego. comm. was instructed to work out an agreement that would benefit ALL parties involved.

In Nov. 2002, APA knew the furloughs would continue and that the arbitrary "required qualifications" imposed by Eagle management would be met by those soon to be hitting the street so EA could no longer reject those without the "required" amount of flight time.

At this point, APA tried to contact the Eagle MEC with the intent of negotiating a "soft landing" for both groups (the interpretation of the flowback agreement by APA legal advisors indicated an unlimited number of flowbacks would be allowed).

The Eagle MEC refused to return APA's phone calls. In fact, it came down to Eagle telling APA they'd see them in court--"you won't get ANY flowbacks". One of the offers from APA was to limit the number of flowbacks to 125. I believe that's when the Eagle MEC made the above comment.

In any event, after that, APA was determined to secure as many flowback positions as possible and the rest is history. The issue went to a neutral arbitrator and he ruled in favor of APA.

The next big event is when the four-party agreement expires in the next year or two. Do those not on the property retain their seniority numbers after the agreement drops dead? Must Eagle keep the flowbacks in their positions despite having bottom of the list seniority numbers. It's going to be interesting.TC

P.S.--I was at most of the APA BOD meetings from Nov. '02 until the concessionary agreement was signed in Mar. '03. The rest of the time I got my info from a friend on the APA Nego. Comm. I'm sure many won't like my recitation of the events above but that's what I saw and what my friend has seen.

I have no dog in this fight. I didn't take the flowback and only one person I know is not counting the seconds until they can get out of Eagle.

And, yes, the TWA guys are getting their years of service for pay purposes. To a man, they regret that this had to happen and treat their FO's as professionals. If they don't, they get a blanket party in the parking lot. That's how WE do things.

Well, I appreciate you clarifying the events that lead up to the flowback/J4J deal. Of course, when I was at a Regional I got a different version of the story. And I do remember reading a statement put out by the ALPA Eagle MEC blasting the APA for not consulting them. While I don't dispute what your telling me is true, since you had good inside info, I do find it hard to beleive that the Eagle MEC would outright refuse to meet with the APA unless they were told to accept the unacceptable. Of course, the Eagle pilots should recognize that the only reason their block hours were going up was at the expense of AA mainline flying, hence their boon in new flying was at the expense of their flow-back brothers and sisters... so there has to be some accomadation of those pilots.

I have heard both sides of the story from Eagle pilots and from AA pilots. I really don't know who to beleive anymore. That said, like yourself, I don't have a dog in this one either. I have never worked for Eagle, I would never work for Eagle (great pilots, sh!tty mgmt) and I don't have any friends who work for Eagle... at least that I know of.

Regardless, if AA pilots are "reporting' Eagle F/Os such behaviopr is rather pathetic.

 

[AA717driver]

English--You're right. I checked with my friend. Sorry, I only remember Darrah telling us at a meeting that AE wasn't cooperating. The AE MEC did actually talk to APA during that period. They wanted a renegotiation of Sup. W. Among other things, they were demanding their people who held seniority numbers be placed in class at AA because they claimed the transition classes for TWA'ers moving to the AA certificate were "newhires". AA was still furlouging at that point.

APA was proposing some changes to Sup. W that would have limited the flowbacks and AE MEC wanted wholesale changes.

From that point, things went very badly for AE. It's very unfortunate things couldn't be worked out. The people who are being hurt the worst are the long-term FO's at AE who would have moved into the 400+ CA seats that have opened up in the past couple of years.

The really bad deal is that so many people have stayed at AE waiting on that seniority number to come up. They are looking at a very long wait now.TC

whymeworry?--I talked to a friend who corrected some of the errors in the post you copied. (See above) I'm sure the AE MEC saw things differently than APA did. The bottom line is that it has turned out to be a Godsend for 400+ AA furloughees (many of which are former TWA guys with over 10 years seniority) and a really lousy deal for 400+ Eagle FO's who were nearing upgrade after years of life at the regional.

Hopefully recalls at AA will begin and the flowbacks can get out of Eagle to the benefit of all concerned.TC

 

[Draginass]

The APA leadership will be negotiating steep concessions soon with AMR. Expect wage cuts, more furloughs, and a preferential bidding system that will eliminate the need for recalls for several more years.

 

[AA717driver]

The APA leadership will be negotiating steep concessions soon with AMR. Expect wage cuts, more furloughs, and a preferential bidding system that will eliminate the need for recalls for several more years.

Alright, Dragin, I was just trying to be nice and upbeat. Yeah, all but a few of the flowbies are there for a LONG time. And, the AA and TWA newhires who got whacked in 10/01 will only be out 12 years... If they're lucky.

The truth sucks! TC

P.S.-- I think you'll see some of the flowbacks start looking for jobs outside of Eagle and there may be some openings for AE FO's that way. JMO.

 

[1IDBLKJEW]

I think that Ty and Chuck are repressed homosexuals, and after each of their posts they cry for about 15 minutes and then go back and masturbate while reading eachothers rebuttals.

But thats just my opinion.

Oh one more thing. I guess if I had to chose I think Ty is much more of a beastiality prone homosexual.

That is just wrong and ultimately dangerous.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

Ty is like a bad case of the scabbies. No matter how much you scratch him, you can't get rid of him.

 

[FlyWolf]

I personally think that you will start seeing positive numbers coming here soon, the reason is that Midwest actually have to spend money to start those cost cutting measures they are trying to implement, examples: the Milwaukee ramp (which is in my opinion is very good now) also the Midwest own buy on board catering program, and also the parking of three MD80, after we replace the MD80 flying with the new incoming 717 we will positively see some positive numbers and results.

Back to the original post, Midwest is far from a lateral move like someone said, I worked in the regional for 6 years and know its not true, as a matter of fact I personally think Midwest is one of the best companies out there regarding good treatment of pilots and good pilot/ management relation, granted we have some problems but which airline doesn’t? I can almost assure your friend that he will be happy here.

But, I would wait and see what this next year brings us, specially with the fuel prices remaining at this high level, the reason, he have a new born and some commitments, so he have to think hard before making the jump during this hard time in the airline industry.

Said that, I hope Midex survive this hard time for the sake of all the hard working people with families who gives it there best day in and day out.

For our Milwaukee rampers, I want to say Thank-you for all the hard work, don’t think that we pilots don’t see or appreciate what you guys and gals are doing to get us out on time.

 

[1800 RVR]

Well, I wouldn't say that...

If I remember correctly, I don't think that the pilots and management have THAT great of a relationship. Things could have changed, I'll admit, but a leopard doesn't change its spots. From my sources, things are just the same now as they were 4 years ago when I was there.

FlyWolf,

I wish you the best of luck. I truly wish that MidEx makes it. I still have friends there and I would hate to see them screwed again. Sounds like you were furloughed as was I, but you should know better that TM is incompetent as a CEO. If MidEx survives, it will be in spite of him. With the rest of the 717s coming, they had better find a place to fly them to. What about Signature vs. Saver? What a cluster! I think they are throwing darts at a wall to see what sticks. I've been at two airlines where this was standard MO. And, yes, if anyone asks, I am bitter towards MidEx management. Frick me once - shame on you, frick me twice - shame on me. I let them get me twice. No thank you, anymore.

O.K. Off my soapbox, more coffee....

 

[1IDBLKJEW]

OH yeah I forgot, I think 1800RVR is a homosexual also

HEE HEEE HEEEEE

Just kidding, Whats up 1800? How you likin the brown coat these days?

Give me a pm sometime

see ya

 

[Ty Webb]

Yawn.

You weren't very funny when you were still here, Sammy, and you haven't improved since.