Midwest or stay at Eagle

[bluejuice787]

I am trying to help a friend out. He is currently working for American Eagle, however, was recently offered a job with Midwest Airlines. He lives in MKE so there would be no commute. For me it would be a no brainer...I would simply leave AE but he has a child on the way and is fearful of leaving a known for an unknown in this environment.

Any opinions and anyone with insight into the finances of Midwest? Pros and cons of both?

Thx

 

[4fanman]

Have him check out the Midwest website. I know it has a lot of financial stuff on it in the investor area. Maybe this could help him.

 

[Draginass]

Unless he wants to be a career regional FO working for a company that's going to be in bankruptsy next year, he ought to leave.

 

[bluejuice787]

do you guys have any frineds that work there? what do they think?

 

[CRJDog]

I did not know Midwest was hiring. If I was him I would bolt AE.

 

[248to2.8]

I would simply leave AE but he has a child on the way and is fearful of leaving a known for an unknown in this environment.

Any opinions and anyone with insight into the finances of Midwest? Pros and cons of both?

Thx

I don't know that there is anything known in this industry anymore but I would take the job if I were him.

 

[SeaLord]

I'm over at Skyway next door, and things are pretty much status quo as per the average airline: losing money, parking airplanes, cutting costs, praying fuel drops. It's anyones guess if YX will survive, but they do have a niche product which seems to be worth something. My recommendation would be to go to YX for the time being and try to get on with a LCC ASAP. Midwest is advertising a 6-8 year upgrade right now, and the money is comparable to Eagle I'm assuming. I will say this: the old school (grey hairs abound) style mgmt. has me very suspicious of anything really great ever happening though.

 

[MED]

I've been here at Eagle for 6 years and I'm in the process of leaving to work overseas, I don't like to leave the country but I'll work anywhere just to get out of here(Eagle). Here are the reasons why I want to leave:
1. No upgrade
2. No money for FO ($30,000/year for a 6 year FO)
3. You have to fly with scAAbs
4. Unhappy co-workers (gate agents, FAs, rampers, etc.
5. The flight time I'm getting are not valuable to any major airlines. (SIC on a regional jet)
To the guy that post about Eagle going into "BANKRUPTSY" next year, you must know something I don't know, so tell us what it is.

 

[miles otoole]

I will say this: the old school (grey hairs abound) style mgmt. has me very suspicious of anything really great ever happening though.

As opposed to the new school management style of DAL, UA, AA, MAG? Or do you simply like the younger MBAs who are more "labor friendly?"

 

[Heavy Set]

Go get some 717 time. You'll look better when applying to AirTran if you want to leave Midwest...

 

[miles otoole]

I've been here at Eagle for 6 years and I'm in the process of leaving to work overseas, I don't like to leave the country but I'll work anywhere just to get out of here(Eagle). Here are the reasons why I want to leave:
1. No upgrade
2. No money for FO ($30,000/year for a 6 year FO)
3. You have to fly with scAAbs
4. Unhappy co-workers (gate agents, FAs, rampers, etc.
5. The flight time I'm getting are not valuable to any major airlines. (SIC on a regional jet)
To the guy that post about Eagle going into "BANKRUPTSY" next year, you must know something I don't know, so tell us what it is.

So,
1) You'll move straight into the left seat?
2) You'll make $60K right away (living overseas, will you have double the QOL?)
3) No scab's fly overseas? (Funny how someone else's job choice years ago somehow forces you to work half way around the world.)
4) No unhappy F/As, gate agents, rampers overseas? (Funny how an unhappy F/A, gate agent or ramper forces you to work half way around the world. "I don't like my co-workers. I am moving to Hong Kong.")
5) Again, you'll be moving directly into the left seat? If not, what's the expected upgrade time?

I admire your optimsm, but really, are you being realistic? It might be cheaper to move to Detroit and be a CFI. FWIW, I know 2 guys who tried the overseas thing and came crawling back last year (hated the locals who hated Americans).

 

[fam62c]

I think it would all depend on how long this person has been at Eagle, are they a CA or FO, what do they make, what are their schedules like? Not having to commute is a powerful incentive if the money is comparable. Midwest is essentially a no-growth airline for the forseeable future so plan on a long upgrade and a long time on reserve at the bottom. I would also be concerned about the financial situation at Midwest and the lack of any real business plan going forward. The company is losing money and when the cash is gone the airline is toast. Bankruptcy is really not an option for Midwest like it is for AMR if things get really bad. Midwest is too small and has too few lenders with big stakes in the airline. When the cash is gone the airline will need to liquidate, maybe AirTran would pick up some of the pieces if Midwest failed but they may not want the people.

Being at the bottom of any seniority list (except SWA maybe) in today's world puts you at great risk of being out of work. I would stick with the sure thing until the future of this industry and the individual carriers becomes more clear. If this person wants to go to Midwest I would advise him/her to really do their homework first.

 

[AA717driver]

MED said "scAAbs". I believe he's referring to the AA furloughees who have flowed back to Eagle and deprived him of "his" Captain upgrade.

Apparently he disagrees with the arbitrator who ruled those furloughees were contractually permitted to flow back to Eagle. Guess the Eagle MEC should have taken APA's offer to cap flowbacks at 125...TC

 

[TWA Dude]

It is a no-brainer: your friend should go to Midwest. Come what may it's worth it. (I have no regrets about leaving Chautauqua for TWA in '99.)

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

It's a no-brainer...

Live in base
no commute
bigger,more employable aircraft for the future.

For me, not to commute, fly from my home town or town of my residence. I would do it for the QOL alone. Plus, the money is the same or better and schedule will be better than AE, especially sleeping in your own master bedroom with no roomates. Just think about it, you go out for a long trip, come back and there is still milk and toilet paper in the house,. Priceless!

 

[MED]

So,
1) You'll move straight into the left seat?
2) You'll make $60K right away (living overseas, will you have double the QOL?)
3) No scab's fly overseas? (Funny how someone else's job choice years ago somehow forces you to work half way around the world.)
4) No unhappy F/As, gate agents, rampers overseas? (Funny how an unhappy F/A, gate agent or ramper forces you to work half way around the world. "I don't like my co-workers. I am moving to Hong Kong.")
5) Again, you'll be moving directly into the left seat? If not, what's the expected upgrade time?

I admire your optimsm, but really, are you being realistic? It might be cheaper to move to Detroit and be a CFI. FWIW, I know 2 guys who tried the overseas thing and came crawling back last year (hated the locals who hated Americans).

Yes I'm being realistic,
1. No, but at least the upgrade is shorter(5 to 6 years on A330)
2. No, the starting pay is $70,000 plus housing (QOL is better because I don't have to pay anything except food)
3. No scabs because they don't have unioun (good or bad, who cares?)
4. Yes there's a few unhappy workers there but at least they don't talk back to you(they can't speak english )
5. Again, right seat with a possibility of upgrade.

 

[whymeworry?]

MED said "scAAbs". I believe he's referring to the AA furloughees who have flowed back to Eagle and deprived him of "his" Captain upgrade.

Apparently he disagrees with the arbitrator who ruled those furloughees were contractually permitted to flow back to Eagle. Guess the Eagle MEC should have taken APA's offer to cap flowbacks at 125...TC

AA717driver, you can't be serious, right?

I will admit I am not really qualified to comment on this topic of the AA flow-back dilemma but my Eagle buddies told me that the APA negotiated a JFJ deal without consent of the Eagle MEC, and they got it! How can that be fair? Just because a judge or arbitrator rules on the issue it makes it right? Get outta' here. With that mentality I suppose you agree with all the bankcruptcy judges in this country who are giving management a free pass to subrogate pilot CBAs. I mean, hey, if the judge ruled in the company's favor that must mean labor was demanding too much, right? Yeah, tell that to the pilots of DAL, NW or even take a look at AQ. They are actually making money and the company is still asking the judge overseeing the 1113 filing to completely cancel their contract AND cancel their FULLY FUNDED pension! But hey, if the judge says it's ok it must be! Right!?! Come on, the judges in the country are polluted with bias influence from big business. The largest lobby groups in Washington are the Lawyer Associations. Where do you think judges come from? Most of Congress and the Senate are former lawyers. You can't sue a judge. So who gets to make decisions with impunity? Judges/ arbitrators. They know their people in Washington have their back. Just because they rule on a case doesn't mean it was right. But this is our justice system so we're stuck with this process.

Approx 2 months ago I exchanged some chit-chat with an Eagle Captain at the Starbucks in Midland. He gave me the usual rant about how sh!tty moral is over there. What surprised me though was the latest gripe among the pilots that flow-back pilots were reporting First Officers with to management! What? That's what this captain told me. He went on to say the F/Os weren't doing anything wrong, it was just payback by the flow-backs for bad blood or something like that. If it's true, that kind of treatment is pathetic. If you can't settle your differences in the cockpit handle it within the union. Going to management is something only a spineless individual would do... unless the union and pilot's simply can't get over their differences. Even then, come on... whats up with all the "telling on each other?" In my entire career (15 + years) I have NEVER reported another pilot to mgmt. It's always settled between us or with the input of the union. I always try to keep issues i"n-house", i.e. between pilots. Of course, if I thought it affected safety of flight I would not hesitate to go to mgmt but I wouldn't strech the "safety of flight" caveat just to settle a score either.

I know a couple of flow-backs at Eagle as well and they seem to fit the mold of what this Captain was telling me.

 

[pilotman121]

Eagle

I've been here at Eagle for 6 years and I'm in the process of leaving to work overseas, I don't like to leave the country but I'll work anywhere just to get out of here(Eagle). Here are the reasons why I want to leave:
1. No upgrade
2. No money for FO ($30,000/year for a 6 year FO)
3. You have to fly with scAAbs
4. Unhappy co-workers (gate agents, FAs, rampers, etc.
5. The flight time I'm getting are not valuable to any major airlines. (SIC on a regional jet)
To the guy that post about Eagle going into "BANKRUPTSY" next year, you must know something I don't know, so tell us what it is.

That sounds the same as working at American Airlines!

 

[str8upflyrght]

I'll be the first to admit i don't understand the flow-back policy at AMR. A good friend of mine is a flow back to AE. The way he explained it that when times were good, there was a flow through arrangement that allowed eagle guys to move onto mainline, and there were no complaints. The agreement was a 2 way streak, but no one cared since, everything was good and people were moving to bigger and better things. Now that things have changed, things are happenning in reverse and everyone is sore about it. So my question is why are the guys going to Eagle "scAAbs"? Does that title also apply to the pilots who went from Eagle to mainline?
If my understanding of the agreement is wrong, i apologize in advance.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The agreement was a 2 way streak

When you streak your neigborhood one direction, then turn around and run in the opposite direction, ala Will Farrell. "We're goin' streaking!!!"