Midwest has more than one foot in the ground

[flying zephyr]

AirTran expansion, company refusing any negotiations, Rumors of NWA/DAL taking over for Republic May 1, and our "Union" has a conference call tonight to discuss our fate. Sad to see it go. I wish everyone the best! Great group of people, 717 was a great bird, Good crew all the way around. Too bad they should've seen this coming with the Ramp, the shutdown of Skyway, the "temporary furloughs", the farming out the flying, getting rid of charter, it's pointless to go on. Would the last pilot to land an aircraft for MEH turn out the lights when you leave the bag room. Good luck and GOD bless you all. I hope that all of the rest of you see this as a warning, if you think that this couldn't happen at your airline, look at Delta's "redifined" scope language. Fight the good fight. I hope Rip van ALPA wakes up soon, or it won't be much fun to be a pilot.

 

[FlyWolf]

Truly a sad day for all of us who worked so hard for Midwest.

 

[AceCrackshot]

With MidEX gone the airline industry, as it was during its glory, is finished.

What's left? A bunch of poorly managed and/or poorly staffed and/or cream skimming companies like UA, CO and WN that without cabotage, couldn't survive. Their product frankly couldn't and can't compete internationally.

And guess what chumps...cabotage is as dead as Julius Caesar. Cabotage is the zombie of industrial policy...its walking around, it just doesn't know its dead. Watch Obama start to trade cabotage away to the foreigners in exchange for buying our debt to subsidize his domestic programs.

 

[Wesb737fo]

hmmm. interesting. If this comes to pass he will have some explaining to do, but, hey what does that cost him.



" I support upholding current cabotage laws."

" I believe ALPA has legitimate concerns about the liberalization of control of US airlines, and I will work to ensure foreign investors remain minority shareholders in US airlines."

(then) Presidential candidate B. Obama on cabotage and foreign ownership concerning US airlines in ALPA magazine's survey of political candidates.

 

[ultrarunner]

Anything on the midex hotline?

 

[AceCrackshot]

hmmm. interesting. If this comes to pass he will have some explaining to do, but, hey what does that cost him.



" I support upholding current cabotage laws."

" I believe ALPA has legitimate concerns about the liberalization of control of US airlines, and I will work to ensure foreign investors remain minority shareholders in US airlines."

(then) Presidential candidate B. Obama on cabotage and foreign ownership concerning US airlines in ALPA magazine's survey of political candidates.

Was that before or after "My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election. My proposal followed announcements by some presidential candidates that they would forgo public financing so they could raise unlimited funds in the general election. The Federal Election Commission ruled the proposal legal, and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Then Senator Barak Obama's written statement, 2007

Of course, in President Obama's defense, cabotage has been teetering since the now-convicted Felon former Senior Senator from Alaska Ted Stevens' great work on the issue on behalf of the Chinese Communists.

 

[Max Powers]

With MidEX gone the airline industry, as it was during its glory, is finished.

What's left? A bunch of poorly managed and/or poorly staffed and/or cream skimming companies like UA, CO and WN that without cabotage, couldn't survive. Their product frankly couldn't and can't compete internationally.

And guess what chumps...cabotage is as dead as Julius Caesar. Cabotage is the zombie of industrial policy...its walking around, it just doesn't know its dead. Watch Obama start to trade cabotage away to the foreigners in exchange for buying our debt to subsidize his domestic programs.

What in the world are you talking about?????Wow....Obama trading away Cabotage? Give me a break are you that misinformed? It was Bush and the like that did indeed trade away some of our flying. Ever hear of Open-Skies? Look step away from the bong and check your facts.

 

[clickclickboom]

It is always sad in so many ways to see peoples " political affiliation " blind them from just so many realities..

It is just another thing that makes politics such a disgusting hobby..

I just cant wait to see those approval ratings in the next 6 month.. You guys made your bed..

 

[CitationLover]

Anything on the midex hotline?

Is that where the "batman" gets his calls from?

 

[deadstick]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/39459737.html


Time for a new hometown airline?

Loyal community deserves better

By Jay Sorensen
Posted: Feb. 11, 2009
Milwaukee has many economic engines, and one of its most visible has been quality airline service in terms of scope and sustainability. Chicago's O'Hare International Airport casts a long shadow on our airport, and Milwaukee has been lucky to have Midwest Airlines.


Unfortunately for Milwaukee, the benefit of a vibrant and growing hometown airline appears to be unraveling. While Milwaukee has remained loyal to Midwest, the carrier's senior leadership has delivered little but broken promises to our community.


Let's examine the progress this management team has made. As recently as 2006, the airline operated 36 jets under the Midwest brand. Today, that number is down to a lonely nine aircraft. Even more stunning is the loss of jobs. At the beginning of 2008, the company had nearly 3,400 employees. Now, that number has been reduced to 1,740 through rampant layoffs and an almost pathological zeal to outsource jobs to other airlines. Business and leisure travelers lament the loss of larger Midwest jets crewed by real "Best Care in the Air" employees. Most flights now are flown with smaller regional aircraft by crews who don't always seem to share the service spirit of their predecessors.
But wait, it gets worse as the future of Midwest is becoming more problematic. Delta Air Lines along with Texas Pacific Group now control the fate of Midwest. Delta has demonstrated little desire to bring Milwaukee into its family of nearby hubs: Minneapolis, Detroit, Cincinnati and Memphis. Instead, Delta has abundant economic incentive to feed more Milwaukee travelers to its newly expanded network of seven domestic hubs.
The reported lease deal involving the last of the Boeing 717 may literally bring the end of large jet service for Midwest and force a complete reliance on regional aircraft. Midwest might become a virtual airline with far fewer employees and all services provided by replacement carriers using codeshare flights.


Our community has certainly remained loyal to the employees and leadership of Midwest Airlines. With each painful announcement from corporate headquarters, this city has continued to show its support. But this loyalty has not been returned; senior leadership has treated its employees and the Milwaukee community very poorly. Midwest is no longer the hometown carrier of our memory. It has become an airline owned by private investors who believe they can shrink their way to profitability.
Milwaukee deserves better. Milwaukee needs a new hometown airline to begin the process of growing a hub here. Milwaukee needs an airline with the resources to compete in today's tough competitive climate. A new carrier would best guarantee our economic future, and I believe that airline can be AirTran.


Even in Milwaukee, loyalty has its limits.


Jay Sorensen, a former Midwest marketing manager, is president of IdeaWorks, an airline industry consulting firm based in Shorewood.

 

[AceCrackshot]

What in the world are you talking about?????Wow....Obama trading away Cabotage? Give me a break are you that misinformed? It was Bush and the like that did indeed trade away some of our flying. Ever hear of Open-Skies? Look step away from the bong and check your facts.

Its not a zero-sum. Just because Bush did something doesn't mean that Obama will operate in immediate contravention. Are YOU that misinformed?

Neither party has a monopoly on short sighted industrial policy. In the 1980s, Pan AM's route authorities were truncated in exchange for F-16 sales. The decision was based on two things: foreign sales kept the unit prices down and the foreigners believed that Pan AMs route authorities were oppressive and anti-competitive (regardless of the fact that the reason most these airlines even existed was due to TWA and Pan AM resurrecting them.)

You check your facts...look at foreign military sales of F-16s in the 1980s, and the change in US airline route authorities over that time.

 

[Max Powers]

Its not a zero-sum. Just because Bush did something doesn't mean that Obama will operate in immediate contravention. Are YOU that misinformed?

Neither party has a monopoly on short sighted industrial policy. In the 1980s, Pan AM's route authorities were truncated in exchange for F-16 sales. The decision was based on two things: foreign sales kept the unit prices down and the foreigners believed that Pan AMs route authorities were oppressive and anti-competitive (regardless of the fact that the reason most these airlines even existed was due to TWA and Pan AM resurrecting them.)

You check your facts...look at foreign military sales of F-16s in the 1980s, and the change in US airline route authorities over that time.

Yep you got me there! F-16 sales will prove that Obama is to due away with cabotage. HAHA Obama and the democrats are pro-union and created the no cabotage rule - That is about the last rule they would ever resend. I'm sorry instead of saying "step away from the bong" I should have said "step away from the acid sheets?"

What a tool bag. Let me guess do your friends call you Mr. Conspiracy.

 

[Max Powers]

Also wasn't Regan president in the 80's? Wouldn't that further prove my point?

 

[maxblast72]

Let's examine the progress this management team has made. As recently as 2006, the airline operated 36 jets under the Midwest brand. Today, that number is down to a lonely nine aircraft. Even more stunning is the loss of jobs. At the beginning of 2008, the company had nearly 3,400 employees. Now, that number has been reduced to 1,740 through rampant layoffs and an almost pathological zeal to outsource jobs to other airlines.

Milwaukee needs an airline with the resources to compete in today's tough competitive climate. A new carrier would best guarantee our economic future, and I believe that airline can be AirTran.


Jay Sorensen, a former Midwest marketing manager, is president of IdeaWorks, an airline industry consulting firm based in Shorewood.

This is exactly what Joe L. tried to tell the city of Milwaukee 2 years ago but noone wanted to listen. He said a stand alone Midwest would do nothing but shrink in the face of competition. Airtran on the other hand was going to blow up MKE into a 200 departure a day vibrant hub. I am sure MKE could use the jobs that would of have accompanied a 200 departure a day hub.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi.

Unfortunately for MKE, and SE WI, the people and leadership in the area, as well as some of the MWA employees, decided to believe the MWA leadership.

What they should've done was DEMAND a merger with AirTran.

Hindsite IS 20/20, however.

I didn't apply at MWA, because I didn't think they could continue as a stand-alone airline. I was cheering for an merger with AirTran, and would've applied to MWA the next day.

I feel REALLY bad for all the Skyway and Midwest employees.

Also, my CEO and kids are really going to miss flying on MWA. They loved them.

RIP MWA.

God Bless!

cliff
GRB
PS-I also fault the US government. They allowed MWA to be taken over by NWA, without treating it as the merger that it actually was. The gov't didn't acknowledge that, basically, NWA was buying, and was going to control, MWA. I believe that ALL the MWA employees (and probably Skyway, too) should all now have DAL seniority numbers.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The tragedy of this whole thing for pilots is the whole outsourcing angle. EVERYONE needs to sit up and take notice that the RAH outsource delivered the death blow to Midwest.

It could happen to you.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Also wasn't Regan president in the 80's? Wouldn't that further prove my point?

The Party of the Presidency is irrelevant. I guess if you're still busy fellating Obama, its important to you. OK, your guy won. Congrats. Now, meanwhile in the adult world...

The political aspect is pretty secondary to the formulation of American Industrial Policy, which tends to be pretty bipartisan (See also, NAFTA drafting and implementation.) Why? In my opinion, follow the money. Corporations are giving to both parties, and both parties are protecting corporate interests.

People thinking that the Democratic Party is going to somehow ride to the rescue of organized labor or alientating their corporate donors by nativist or populist industrial policy are living in fantasyland.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Yep you got me there! F-16 sales will prove that Obama is to due away with cabotage. HAHA Obama and the democrats are pro-union and created the no cabotage rule - That is about the last rule they would ever resend. I'm sorry instead of saying "step away from the bong" I should have said "step away from the acid sheets?"

What a tool bag. Let me guess do your friends call you Mr. Conspiracy.

From a broad perspective, Byerly believes further liberalization of aviation accords will continue to be a focus for the US moving forward. "The United States has pursued an open skies policy across three Presidential Administrations - under the first President Bush, President Clinton, and President George W Bush - with strong and consistent support from both parties in the US Congress and from US airline, labour, and airport stakeholders," he says.

From http://www.flightglobal.com/article...or-next-round-of-second-stage-open-skies.html

So, I guess you're Open Skies Argument being a Republican plot argument is somewhat bogus, now isn't it?

 

[414Flyer]

Also wasn't Regan president in the 80's? Wouldn't that further prove my point?

Regan was Treasury Secretary

 

[CitationLover]

The tragedy of this whole thing for pilots is the whole outsourcing angle. EVERYONE needs to sit up and take notice that the RAH outsource delivered the death blow to Midwest.

It could happen to you.

What, it's not about AAI pilots saying, "I told you so!"?!?!?

 

[CitationLover]

Regan was Treasury Secretary

Semantics......Donald Regan, Ronald Reagan wtf!

Regan I know didn't like Nancy too well and the feeling was mutual.

 

[MCOE175]

The tragedy of this whole thing for pilots is the whole outsourcing angle. EVERYONE needs to sit up and take notice that the RAH outsource delivered the death blow to Midwest.

It could happen to you.

It does suck that MWA may be going under... sucks for all. But you should look at the facts before you post this. RAH gave them millions to continue operating.

The pilots here are RAH were not happy about this flying either.

 

[MarineGrunt]

AirTran expansion, company refusing any negotiations, Rumors of NWA/DAL taking over for Republic May 1, and our "Union" has a conference call tonight to discuss our fate.

Any news?

 

[donkeykong]

Any news?

Our MEC has filed for mediation. Our MEC gave mgmt a proposal for the financial portion of the contract back in Dec. Mgmt's henchmen (Seabury Group) told our MEC that they needed to "run it up the flag pole." They were supposed to come back in Jan with a counter proposal. They didn't. They just demanded that our negotiaters go back to work and come up with a proposal that is in their "zone." That zone is the outrageous ~40% paycuts they demanded last June when oil was $130 a barrel. Back then Uncle Timmy told us we needed to recognize the realities of the new energy economy.
So, our MEC didn't see the process going anywhere without going to mediation.
Here's another good one: Seabury tried to get our negotiating team to accept a B scale for all the people not flying right now. In other words, buy off the senior guys to sell out the rest of the list so that it would get voted through. Fortunately, our guys have not accepted that BS.
So the process will carry out through mediation now. There still is no plan whatsoever that has been presented to the pilot group, just rumors and inuendo if we sign up for cheap rates. And the huge question that still lingers is "who is calling the shots at the top of that flagpole?" TPG? DAL? Hucky? Why is this company being left on life support? We cannot fend off Airtran in the condition we are in. The folks in MKE will choose Airtran 717s and 737s over RAH E170s.

 

[Wesb737fo]

What, it's not about AAI pilots saying, "I told you so!"?!?!?

Duuuuuuude.....c'mon man. Let it out.

( No serious, did you find work?)

Don't hate the Tran. None of us wished this on MEH. At least none that I've talked to.

If we open a base in MKE, I'm going to have to buy another snow shovel (being that my wife is a Cheese Head and there is no way she will let me live in peace in my cozy southern confines).
It probably won't happen anyway, we are all going to be in the same boat if '09 goes the way that some are saying.

Oh, no wait, the Dems and O'bama have this cool stimulus thingy that's going to save us all.

Stock up on the Raman Noodles, it's going to be a rough ride.

I say Dave Ramsay for Pres. in 2012.

 

[Citrus531]

Duuuuuuude.....c'mon man. Let it out.

( No serious, did you find work?)

Don't hate the Tran. None of us wished this on MEH. At least none that I've talked to.

If we open a base in MKE, I'm going to have to buy another snow shovel (being that my wife is a Cheese Head and there is no way she will let me live in peace in my cozy southern confines).
It probably won't happen anyway, we are all going to be in the same boat if '09 goes the way that some are saying.

Oh, no wait, the Dems and O'bama have this cool stimulus thingy that's going to save us all.

Stock up on the Raman Noodles, it's going to be a rough ride.

I say Dave Ramsay for Pres. in 2012.

You think we would have opened another crew base by now. These "virtual" ones are interesting. Like you said, nobody at AirTran wished this on Midwest and it's definitely sad to see. 2009 is going to suck big time!

This "stimulus thingy" is better than any of the Republican ideas that got us here over the last 7-8 years".:bomb:

 

[jhiflyin]

Sorry to hear this guys. You have givin me many rides over the years, ALWAYS greeted me with a sincere welcome and fed me more cookies than my waist line could take. Good luck to us all and thank you again.

 

[gearup5]

This "stimulus thingy" is better than any of the Republican ideas that got us here over the last 7-8 years".:bomb:[/quote]


Don't spend your extra 8 bucks a week all at once.

 

[BeachBummer]

This "stimulus thingy" is better than any of the Republican ideas that got us here over the last 7-8 years".:bomb:

Don't spend your extra 8 bucks a week all at once.[/quote]

Dude, don't knock it till ya try it, that eight bucks is about 4.3gal of regular! In your new hybrid that will be given to everyone Thats like 350nm of driving! Korea will be rich soon on the batteries we have to buy from them and all the plastic parts come from china! This is going to be great! sit back dont have to work get everything from the govt!! AWSOME... wait what happens when the rest of the world doesnt' want to play with us anymore... oh crap we have nothing viable to trade... we are so far extended we can't afford toilet paper... oh yea we become the ultimate welfare society! CAN'T WAIT
I should quit my job because i really don't want to pay taxes anyhow so if someone else will take care of it for me why work at all? Ah to reward piss poor performance/behavior the american way.

 

[hockeypilot44]

disregard