MidEx

[FlyWolf]

The last solid number of furlough from DM office is 17.
but no decision yet.

 

[CitationLover]

The last solid number of furlough from DM office is 17.
but no decision yet.

that's the last three classes, 12+1+4. with the expected attrition (25, but with age 65 i would imagine a slightly fewer number) announced earlier i would imagine a short furlough.

what a waste of money for the company if it is a short furlough. that's a little more than half a million dollars in compensation for an entire year from 17 revenue generators, about the salary of one senior executive, a non revenue generator. oh well, perhaps i won't have to worry about sending in my winter ops training exam as i keep forgetting to send it to gruber.

i think you were previously furloughed wolf, how many took the voluntary furloughs?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Sorry to read about furloughs. Hope whoever finds themselves in that situation finds something better.

Maybe the TPG thing will fall through and AAI will come in at a lower price. I would see that as a good situation for the future of AAI and a good situation for most of the workers (non-management) at MEH.

 

[CitationLover]

Sorry to read about furloughs. Hope whoever finds themselves in that situation finds something better.

Maybe the TPG thing will fall through and AAI will come in at a lower price. I would see that as a good situation for the future of AAI and a good situation for most of the workers (non-management) at MEH.

well TPG should not be directing furloughs at this time as that would be highly illegal since the shareholders and the current BoD still run the company.

i firmly believe this confusion is management's doing in lack of preparation for 2008 based on TPG not being in control.

 

[fam62c]

The furloughs, if they even happen, may be political in nature. They may feel that the government may be more likely to approve the buyout faster if it looks like MEH is doing poorly and needs to be saved. This was what sped up the TWA buyout approval when AMR bought them. Obviously this is a different situation but they could be "crying poor" and attempting to get some sympathy to nudge the government. Just a guess and probably an incorrect one but furloughing 17 pilots hardly seems worth the time and effort to conduct the furlough. Maybe MEH wasn't better off as a stand-alone airline afterall.

 

[donkeykong]

that's the last three classes, 12+1+4. with the expected attrition (25, but with age 65 i would imagine a slightly fewer number) announced earlier i would imagine a short furlough.

what a waste of money for the company if it is a short furlough. that's a little more than half a million dollars in compensation for an entire year from 17 revenue generators, about the salary of one senior executive, a non revenue generator. oh well, perhaps i won't have to worry about sending in my winter ops training exam as i keep forgetting to send it to gruber.

i think you were previously furloughed wolf, how many took the voluntary furloughs?

There were very few voluntary furloughs. There were a few military leaves after 9-11. I'm surprised the FAs haven't been threatened with furloughs yet. They are coming up on contract negotiations, too.

 

[CitationLover]

There were very few voluntary furloughs. There were a few military leaves after 9-11. I'm surprised the FAs haven't been threatened with furloughs yet. They are coming up on contract negotiations, too.

i was going to ask the FA's i'm flying with tonight that very question.

 

[Eagle757shark]

The furloughs, if they even happen, may be political in nature. They may feel that the government may be more likely to approve the buyout faster if it looks like MEH is doing poorly and needs to be saved. This was what sped up the TWA buyout approval when AMR bought them. Obviously this is a different situation but they could be "crying poor" and attempting to get some sympathy to nudge the government. Just a guess and probably an incorrect one but furloughing 17 pilots hardly seems worth the time and effort to conduct the furlough. Maybe MEH wasn't better off as a stand-alone airline afterall.

I understand your argument. But the governments decision is not about the survival of Midwest, especially with AirTran having put on the table a business plan for the future of Midwest and MKE. The governments decision is about antitrust issues. Is Northwest's investment in TPG to control Midwest to keep out competition a antitrust violation? That is ALL the government is concerned about, period! If Midwest falters in the next several months, it will not influence the government one way or the other. If your management is banking on that, they will be sadly mistaken. If your stand alone plan can't survive on its own and is beginning to fail, the government may evaluate AirTran's plan and realize rejecting this deal may be in the best interest of competition, the workers, the community and all involved except your blind management. So please don't start playing the "Midwest is now a failing carrier" card. That will not influence the government in this case.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

I spoke with crew planning a couple days ago, and they said they have been losing about 9 FA's a month. Attrition will take care of their over staffing if there ends up being any. My first take on this furlough thing was not good. Now I don't think it is going to happen.

 

[CitationLover]

I understand your argument. But the governments decision is not about the survival of Midwest, especially with AirTran having put on the table a business plan for the future of Midwest and MKE. The governments decision is about antitrust issues. Is Northwest's investment in TPG to control Midwest to keep out competition a antitrust violation? That is ALL the government is concerned about, period! If Midwest falters in the next several months, it will not influence the government one way or the other. If your management is banking on that, they will be sadly mistaken. If your stand alone plan can't survive on its own and is beginning to fail, the government may evaluate AirTran's plan and realize rejecting this deal may be in the best interest of competition, the workers, the community and all involved except your blind management. So please don't start playing the "Midwest is now a failing carrier" card. That will not influence the government in this case.

There is nothing guaranteeing Air Tran will make another offer. If the govt. rejects this for "antitrust" reasons on a one flight overlap, what will they say with Air Tran and multiple flight overlaps? I think you underestimate the impact of an ELECTION year and how a company failing with employees in 10+ congressional districts out of work will sway those in the government.

That being said, more and more are starting to see Air Tran as the better option the more this drags on.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I think you overestimate the number of votes your employees contribute to an election compared to how much money Northwest and TPG contribute to election funds every year. Good luck to everybody.

 

[CitationLover]

I think you overestimate the number of votes your employees contribute to an election compared to how much money Northwest and TPG contribute to election funds every year. Good luck to everybody.

that doesn't make sense, we're talking about the same thing: getting the TPG deal done. the talk of people being fired would be because the TPG deal (or air tran deal for that matter) did not get accomplished.

 

[Eagle757shark]

There is nothing guaranteeing Air Tran will make another offer. If the govt. rejects this for "antitrust" reasons on a one flight overlap, what will they say with Air Tran and multiple flight overlaps? I think you underestimate the impact of an ELECTION year and how a company failing with employees in 10+ congressional districts out of work will sway those in the government.

That being said, more and more are starting to see Air Tran as the better option the more this drags on.

Young Man this is about antitrust issues not the state of Midwest. The government is only concerned with the intentions of the TPG and Northwest's Airlines involvement. Your management put themselves out their stating how strong their stand alone plan was. If that plan is so strong, why now is the Sky falling at Midwest? This is why politicans should stay out of private business. The people of Milwaukee should be up in arms if Midwest fails. The government is only concerned about antitrust issues! If Midwest were to fail in this current environment, capacity would be sucked up by others and the government knows this! They will not allow one company to use another company to violate antitrust laws!
The bottom line, Northwest is doing this to only stifle competition. They are trying to protect their region and that is where the antitrust issues come about.

 

[CitationLover]

Young Man this is about antitrust issues not the state of Midwest. The government is only concerned with the intentions of the TPG and Northwest's Airlines involvement. Your management put themselves out their stating how strong their stand alone plan was. If that plan is so strong, why now is the Sky falling at Midwest? This is why politicans should stay out of private business. The people of Milwaukee should be up in arms if Midwest fails. The government is only concerned about antitrust issues! If Midwest were to fail in this current environment, capacity would be sucked up by others and the government knows this! They will not allow one company to use another company to violate antitrust laws!
The bottom line, Northwest is doing this to only stifle competition. They are trying to protect their region and that is where the antitrust issues come about.

as someone mentioned this was done at TWA also. politicians will make it whatever they want to make it about. i guarantee you if air tran gave the right people millions they'd nix the deal because of feng shui issues with midwest's paint scheme.

the sky is falling because 2008 is a contractual year. we don't have good enough management to do what they do at air tran: post record profits and growth and still low ball you with offers. ours does it the old fashioned way, fear and intimidation.

and that is the second time today i've been called "young", this is a good day. now if it were only true.

 

[Eagle757shark]

as someone mentioned this was done at TWA also. politicians will make it whatever they want to make it about. i guarantee you if air tran gave the right people millions they'd nix the deal because of feng shui issues with midwest's paint scheme.

the sky is falling because 2008 is a contractual year. we don't have good enough management to do what they do at air tran: post record profits and growth and still low ball you with offers. ours does it the old fashioned way, fear and intimidation.

and that is the second time today i've been called "young", this is a good day. now if it were only true.

American bought TWA out of Bankruptcy to bulk up with the proposed US Air and United Airlines merger that was going on at that time. American encouraged TWA to go into Ch. 11 so it could take over on the cheap. American was also going to acquire 20% of US Air's assets (40 Fokker-100s, 29 MD-80s, and all of US Air's 757s because they had rolls royce engines over United's Pratt and Whitney fleet of 757s). This was all proposed to allow the regulators to approve the merger between US Air and United. The merger only fell apart because United got in over their heads and refused to meet with the DOJ along with American, TWA, and US Air, who were at the table with the DOJ. When the DOJ asked United if they would come back to the table, United said no. The DOJ said they would then sue to block the merger and United withdrew their offer. United paid US Air $50 million and American was stuck with TWA. These are the facts!

 

[CitationLover]

American bought TWA out of Bankruptcy to bulk up with the proposed US Air and United Airlines merger that was going on at that time. American encouraged TWA to go into Ch. 11 so it could take over on the cheap. American was also going to acquire 20% of US Air's assets (40 Fokker-100s, 29 MD-80s, and all of US Air's 757s because they had rolls royce engines over United's Pratt and Whitney fleet of 757s). This was all proposed to allow the regulators to approve the merger between US Air and United. The merger only fell apart because United got in over their heads and refused to meet with the DOJ along with American, TWA, and US Air, who were at the table with the DOJ. When the DOJ asked United if they would come back to the table, United said no. The DOJ said they would then sue to block the merger and United withdrew their offer. United paid US Air $50 million and American was stuck with TWA. These are the facts!

i don't need a history lesson. i've heard the history from all the twa guys i flew with. american wanted twa in bankruptcy primarily to get rid of icahn's ticket scheme, yadda yadda yadda, carty had a stiffy because united would be bigger, yadda yadda yadda.

who cares. what you, me, or anyone on here states, is irrelevant. what you think is antitrust violations may not be so within the DOJ. all i know is politicians like to be reelected and tim values his stature within the MKE community, two factors telling me the deal will go through. if not, hello air tran possibly and then we can argue about staple / no staple.

on a sidenote and a bit of trivia. name the federal judge who finally allowed American to buy TWA.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

on a sidenote and a bit of trivia. name the federal judge who finally allowed American to buy TWA.

Peter Walsh or Sue Robinson?

 

[Propsync]

the sky is falling because 2008 is a contractual year.

Not really. Maybe 2010. Maybe. Are you guys even at the table yet? If so, get ready for two years, plus concessions, more if you want scope, and a five year deal as icing on the cake.

 

[Eagle757shark]

i don't need a history lesson. i've heard the history from all the twa guys i flew with. american wanted twa in bankruptcy primarily to get rid of icahn's ticket scheme, yadda yadda yadda, carty had a stiffy because united would be bigger, yadda yadda yadda.

who cares. what you, me, or anyone on here states, is irrelevant. what you think is antitrust violations may not be so within the DOJ. all i know is politicians like to be reelected and tim values his stature within the MKE community, two factors telling me the deal will go through. if not, hello air tran possibly and then we can argue about staple / no staple.

on a sidenote and a bit of trivia. name the federal judge who finally allowed American to buy TWA.

WELL YOU GOT A HISTORY LESSON! It is not a matter of what I think, it is a matter of what the DOJ decides. I believe it was you who got on this board and started spouting about the world is going to feel sorry for Midwest and Tim and the DOJ is going to make a decision based on that. All I've said consistently is the DOJ will evaluate the transaction to see if there are antitrust issues involved, not rather Midwest will survive with or without this deal. They may approve it and they may not, but it will be solely based on antitrust issues. Tim and Carol made the world believe that their stand alone plan with 50 seat rjs was sound and going to make Midwest profitable. Truthfully, I don't care one way or the other.

 

[CitationLover]

Peter Walsh or Sue Robinson?

ya lost me batman. are you drinking and posting again?

http://www.peterwalshdesign.com/

http://www.discomuseum.com/VickiSueRobinson.html

put down the beer, step away from the blackjack table, go home and pick up that precious daughter of yours (batgirl).