Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[Furloughed80]

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

 

[Flyby1206]

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

Because they can. Same was said about the lucrative domestic market (zero foreign competition) and now it is all outsourced to RJs.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Emirates coach is nothing to write home about. Their 1st class is a little better but not much. I have flown them both. A recent survey had Deltas 1st class ranked higher than Emirates. Delta 1st compared to Emirates Coach....not even close.

Delta first class better than Emirates?

You have to be kidding me. I must have missed something on the Delta flight. Emirates a private room with a huge TV with thousands of movies and music. My own little fridge with food and drinks when I want them. Some great food and drinks on the menu when I decide I want to eat. Throw in the 380 and there is a nice shower.

 

[General Lee]

quite the contrary, Emirates is expanding rapidly in Europe. Just added Lyon, New Castle, Warsaw, Barcelona, and Dublin.

Emirates has a lot to offer Governments. For example, trade between Texas and the UAE is in the $billions and Emirates is the bridge.

You are right about passengers not going to Dubai. About 85% of all EK passengers connect to other destinations.

Emirates has only competed directly with the Lufthansa, Air France, British airways types moving passengers between Europe, asia, africa and Aussie. Until now, the US Legacies are taking note.

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.


http://skift.com/2013/01/08/emirates-airlines-plans-for-taking-over-the-globe-part-one/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html

Jetblue and Alaska (turncoats) are interested, because they don't really have any INTL flights. The Legacies are a part of Alliances, and they get money from those airlines, connecting pax through Alliance partner hubs.

As far as expanding to Lyon, the Country of France meters your growth there. It's not unlimited. The UK has so far not metered it, but you are limited at LHR to the number of slots you can get. You may have 5, and that means 5 A380s. You also have a few 777s to LGW, that could be upguaged to A380s if needed. The other cities normally have one or two 777s, except MAN has an A380 in there too. That is how you can expand, just upguage, even if you can't get another slot. Warsaw was your latest city addition, with an A330. That seems to be a good fit because LOT isn't doing well, and the Polish people would like an avenue to SE Asia via DXB.

Emirates really hasn't affected the US Carriers yet, except with connections to Pakistan and India. They rely on Alliance partners in Europe to transfer pax to those countries, and Emirates gets them there through DXB. But, if US passengers want to go to Europe, they won't go to DXB first, so the ME carriers will never really be a huge threat. The European airports are mostly slot controlled and don't have a lot of extra gate space, just like the major US airports. You guys are looking at 120 or so A380s coming, and 100 more 777s? Where could they all go? If they affect the European airlines too much, there will probably be some protectionism going on at a larger scale, and that could mean trouble for someone getting that much heavy metal.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Furloughed80]

Because they can. Same was said about the lucrative domestic market (zero foreign competition) and now it is all outsourced to RJs.

I have never heard the term lucrative 'domestic market'. From my understanding legacies have generally lost money on their domestic networks.

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

I am not privy to the exact numbers, but I find this assertion hard to believe. You are saying if EK flew EWR - Mumbai for UA, UA would make more money than flying the route themselves? I think this is wishful thinking on the part of an EK pilot.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.

DL made $1.6 billion last year (more than EK). With the AA/US merger, all legacies are projected to make over $1 billion a year. Our situation is not really comparable to Qantas. The recent consolidation has changed the US airline industry. The legacies are not what they used to be and the numbers don't lie.

 

[sniper]

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.[/QUOTE









WHAT? Cheaper , I thought Emirates does not get cheaper fuel and pay their pilots ... a lot more tha the Legacies.

 

[Whine Lover]

Mesa Sucks. (?)

 

[8sugarsugar]

Jetblue and Alaska (turncoats) are interested, because they don't really have any INTL flights. The Legacies are a part of Alliances, and they get money from those airlines, connecting pax through Alliance partner hubs.

As far as expanding to Lyon, the Country of France meters your growth there. It's not unlimited. The UK has so far not metered it, but you are limited at LHR to the number of slots you can get. You may have 5, and that means 5 A380s. You also have a few 777s to LGW, that could be upguaged to A380s if needed. The other cities normally have one or two 777s, except MAN has an A380 in there too. That is how you can expand, just upguage, even if you can't get another slot. Warsaw was your latest city addition, with an A330. That seems to be a good fit because LOT isn't doing well, and the Polish people would like an avenue to SE Asia via DXB.

Emirates really hasn't affected the US Carriers yet, except with connections to Pakistan and India. They rely on Alliance partners in Europe to transfer pax to those countries, and Emirates gets them there through DXB. But, if US passengers want to go to Europe, they won't go to DXB first, so the ME carriers will never really be a huge threat. The European airports are mostly slot controlled and don't have a lot of extra gate space, just like the major US airports. You guys are looking at 120 or so A380s coming, and 100 more 777s? Where could they all go? If they affect the European airlines too much, there will probably be some protectionism going on at a larger scale, and that could mean trouble for someone getting that much heavy metal.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes, there is some protectionism, but not as much as you think. The main subject keeping Emirates from expanding is aircraft deliveries and airspace issues in DXB. The carpet salesmen and pearl divers were very clever at obtaining two more slots into LHR that were owned by Qantas and leased back to British Airways. Later this year, they will have 7 daily A380 flights.

Back to the theme of this thread, 5th freedom. DXB is full, where else is EK going to put these aircraft? Until now, yes you were right, Emirates hasn't completed directly with US legacies. JFK-MXP competes directly with American and Delta.

 

[8sugarsugar]

In regards to aircraft deliveries, they had to pull their double daily Houston and LAX solely because they couldn't get aircraft fast enough before the start of Seattle, DFW and IAD. As more deliveries come, you will see most of those flights double up again.

There are billions of Indians that need to go somewhere.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Tim Clark, CEO of Emirates has been quoted that if Air India ever got their sh!t together, they would put Emirates out of business overnight.

 

[8sugarsugar]

I am not privy to the exact numbers, but I find this assertion hard to believe. You are saying if EK flew EWR - Mumbai for UA, UA would make more money than flying the route themselves? I think this is wishful thinking on the part of an EK pilot.

No EK pilot would wish for layovers in EWR or BOM.

And Emirates flying EWR-BOM? Doubtful, but EWR-DXB, then DXB to 10 other Indian destinations plus everywhere else in Africa, Asia.

 

[Furloughed80]

Tim Clark, CEO of Emirates has been quoted that if Air India ever got their sh!t together, they would put Emirates out of business overnight.

I doubt Air India will ever get their act together. One airline that actually has a chance against EK is Turkish. They are building the largest airport in the world in IST, employing the exact same strategy as EK, they benefit from a location right in the middle of three continents (much like Dubai), there inflight service is amazing, and they have been rapidly expanding.

 

[Flyby1206]

I doubt Air India will ever get their act together. One airline that actually has a chance against EK is Turkish. They are building the largest airport in the world in IST, employing the exact same strategy as EK, they benefit from a location right in the middle of three continents (much like Dubai), there inflight service is amazing, and they have been rapidly expanding.

TK is definitely expanding a lot, but I think the worry with Air India is there is so much travel demand to/from India, as opposed to people going to DXB as a destination.

If Air India could get things cranking and operate an efficient hub they could capitalize on traffic flows between Europe and China/Asia while also offering O&D at their main hub. European travelers could skip DXB and fly direct to India. Emirates loses efficiency by people not wanting to go to Dubai, but only use it as a connect point.

 

[8sugarsugar]

TK is definitely expanding a lot, but I think the worry with Air India is there is so much travel demand to/from India, as opposed to people going to DXB as a destination.

If Air India could get things cranking and operate an efficient hub they could capitalize on traffic flows between Europe and China/Asia while also offering O&D at their main hub. European travelers could skip DXB and fly direct to India. Emirates loses efficiency by people not wanting to go to Dubai, but only use it as a connect point.

Air India has even cheaper labor than Dubai. Baggage handler Dubai makes about $1500/year. And Emirates gives those guys free food and house. India, maybe $800 without room and board.

Last I heard, Air India is 2-3 months behind on payroll. Kingfisher is belly up. It's amazing how India airlines suck so bad and will never get there ducks in a row.

A lot of big bets were made in Indian aviation because of location and labor costs, and lost mostly on incompetence and old English style bureaucracy and red tape.

 

[Flyby1206]

Air India has even cheaper labor than Dubai. Baggage handler Dubai makes about $1500/year. And Emirates gives those guys free food and house. India, maybe $800 without room and board.

Last I heard, Air India is 2-3 months behind on payroll. Kingfisher is belly up. It's amazing how India airlines suck so bad and will never get there ducks in a row.

A lot of big bets were made in Indian aviation because of location and labor costs, and lost mostly on incompetence and old English style bureaucracy and red tape.

Not just Indian aviation, but business in general is facing a lot of problems in dealing with the government. It is a shame, but hopefully the political culture can change.

The UAE is really a model in terms of government encouraging growth in the aviation sector. We in the USA and around the world could learn a thing or ten from them.