Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[Furloughed80]

You either learn how to play with the existing conditions or you fail.

There is nothing a US or EU carrier can do to compete with EK on cost. This is great news for you and your career at EK. Congrats.

 

[Flyer1015]

I don't know anyone who's been to the other ME for any period of time who would honestly describe it as anything other than a cesspool of bribery and corruption.

Thank god it's not like that here. Could you imagine the kind of bribery you could have if corporations and lobbyists spent millions and millions of dollars to "support" (aka bribe) a politician for their campaign, and have publicly-elected officials do what's best for those corporations and lobbyists. Then corporate interests and lobbyists would run the show, but thankfully that doesn't happen.

 

[8sugarsugar]

But EK is not flying MIA-BOG. EK doesn't even fly to BOG. So that's not what Emirates does.

I'm guessing that this coming summer will be your first summer over there. Good luck. And stop smoking the hookah.

OMG, Its like talking to a brick wall. Emirates has APPLIED (def. to make a formal application or request) for 5th freedom rights for DXB-MIA-BOG. If approved, they would sell tickets on the MIA-BOG sector, this is Emirates business plan and it works very well for them. Clear now?


Other CURRENT (def. belonging to the present time) 5th freedom flights Emirates operates is DXB-GIG-EZE

I'm not arguing with you, i'm just stating the facts.

 

[Varmint]

OMG, Its like talking to a brick wall. Emirates has APPLIED (def. to make a formal application or request) for 5th freedom rights for DXB-MIA-BOG. If approved, they would sell tickets on the MIA-BOG sector, this is Emirates business plan and it works very well for them. Clear now?


Other CURRENT (def. belonging to the present time) 5th freedom flights Emirates operates is DXB-GIG-EZE

I'm not arguing with you, i'm just stating the facts.

What are you talking about sugarsugar?....Andy is the smart one, everyone else is just stupid (tic).

 

[Varmint]

YGTBSM. Educate yourself; that has to be one of the most uninformed statements I've ever read. Anywhere.

And 5th freedom rights are few and far between.

You don't read much than, do you. I can think of a list of 20 international city pairs that are 5th freedom.....and that is not including US carriers.

 

[Green]

I agree , let's ask a first officer on the 777 with emirates what cost index he outs on the FMC from JFK to DBX
And let's ask a DELTA 777 FO..

Numbers don't lie ...

777 no longer flies DXB-JFK except for the occasional cargo flight. But in general the 777 uses a cost index of 36 on ULR flights. EK is very tight with fuel. Usually flight planned with only 20 minutes contingency fuel on a 14 hour flight. I think the biggest challenge for EK will be capacity in DXB. Holding during peak arrival times is getting out of control. Will be interesting to see what they do after a couple more years of aircraft deliveries.

 

[Andy]

You don't read much than, do you. I can think of a list of 20 international city pairs that are 5th freedom.....and that is not including US carriers.

You think that 20 international city pairs is a large number????

 

[X-rated]

I think the biggest challenge for EK will be capacity in DXB. Holding during peak arrival times is getting out of control. Will be interesting to see what they do after a couple more years of aircraft deliveries.

The DWC NOTAM for one way in one way out operation is set to expire in April. It was also in effect last winter due to Bird migration and the proximity of a massive land fill. The problem is, the winds don't always allow use of those runways, so you can easily get stuck. Sheikh Mohd has ordered the dump relocated to prevent a reoccurrence next year. Only Dubai would be willing to spend that kind of money to solve the problem. At any rate, once DWC becomes a better option, many of the GA and Cargo operators will move over. That should help quite a bit. But I agree, DXB is getting very crowded, and peak times are a problem.

/.Q
- A0206/13 07MAR13/0630-30APR13/1100
D)H24
E)DUE TO INTENSE BIRD ACT AT WASTE SITE 1NM RADIUS AT PSN
245551.42N
0550446.32E AND ASSOCIATED RISK OF BIRD STRIKE FLW RESTRICTIONS
APPLY:
IFR FLIGHTS AT OMDW RWY 12 DEP ONLY AND RWY 30 ARR ONLY.
VFR TRAINING FLIGHTS OF FIXED WING ACFT RESTRICTED TO LGT CAT ONLY.
EITHER RWY IS AVBL BUT CIRCUIT PATTERN MUST REMAIN WI 5 DME FM JXB
DVOR TO THE NW.)

 

[Varmint]

You think that 20 international city pairs is a large number????

Considering that Delta serves 94 international cities, United serves 108 international cities, and American Flies to 78 international cities, Yes, 20 cities is a fairly large number for something that you claim to be "few and far between".

 

[Andy]

Considering that Delta serves 94 international cities, United serves 108 international cities, and American Flies to 78 international cities, Yes, 20 cities is a fairly large number for something that you claim to be "few and far between".

Eliminate Asian cities and Australia/New Zealand. The number gets much smaller.

20 city pairs? I can do that with 7 cities. A, B, C, D, E, F, G
A-B
A-C
A-D
A-E
A-F
A-G
B-C
B-D
B-E
B-F
B-G
C-D
C-E
C-F
C-G
D-E
D-F
D-G
E-F
E-G
F-G makes 21.
London, Paris, Brussels, Frankfurt, Rome, Athens, Madrid.
How many cities in the world have major international airports? Then tell me how many city pair combinations are possible.

In how many US cities does Emirates currently have 5th Freedom rights? The same number of US ports that Dubai Ports World bought in 2006?

No worries; I'm sure that DOT/FAA will simply rubber stamp Emirates' requests and there will be zero public opposition. :laugh:
I must say, it's amusigly easy to spot newhires at various airlines. Watch out for those Dubai rent scams.

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

 

[Flyer1015]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

 

[Andy]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

If ANYONE had done their homework, they would have known that the Asian and European 5th Freedom Rights granted to US airlines were due to our involvement in WWII and subsequently paying the entire bill to rebuild those countries. As of today, only Finland has repaid loans from the Marshall Plan.

Those 5th Freedom Rights didn't come cheap. But I guess that stuff's lost on on the ipod and backpack crowd.

 

[General Lee]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

DL (via NW) and UAL (via Pan Am) received the slots and rights via buying them outright, and they were awarded them by the Japanese Govt after WWII. The slots are limited, though. JFK also has limited slots at the busy periods, and limited gates. Emirates tried JFK to Hamburg, Germany and onto Dubai back in 2006 and failed. They will probably try MXP, but I don't see them having a hub in JFK, doubtful.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyby1206]

Not to break up the 5th Freedom lovefest, but how do the Open Skies agreements enter into the equation? It is my understanding you can fly from Country A, to Country B, to Country C as long as they are all part of the Open Skies. Is this correct?

 

[8sugarsugar]

DL (via NW) and UAL (via Pan Am) received the slots and rights via buying them outright, and they were awarded them by the Japanese Govt after WWII. The slots are limited, though. JFK also has limited slots at the busy periods, and limited gates. Emirates tried JFK to Hamburg, Germany and onto Dubai back in 2006 and failed. They will probably try MXP, but I don't see them having a hub in JFK, doubtful.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Emirates' JFK-Hamburg-DXB was not a 5th freedom flight and it failed miserably for a couple reasons

they could only pick up passengers in DXB and drop them off in Hamburg or JFK

In reverse, they could only pick up passengers in JFK and Hamburg and drop them off in DXB.

The plane will be half full on at least one sector.

Plus, passengers were not happy at all, especially those that bought duty free liquor in JFK, had to go back through security in Hamburg and surrender it.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

 

[8sugarsugar]

deleted

 

[General Lee]

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Varmint]

Eliminate Asian cities and Australia/New Zealand. The number gets much smaller.

20 city pairs? I can do that with 7 cities.

In how many US cities does Emirates currently have 5th Freedom rights? The same number of US ports that Dubai Ports World bought in 2006?

No worries; I'm sure that DOT/FAA will simply rubber stamp Emirates' requests and there will be zero public opposition. :laugh:
I must say, it's amusigly easy to spot newhires at various airlines. Watch out for those Dubai rent scams.

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Let's just eliminate everything so you seem right.

Cities....not city pairs.

When your debating resorts to personal digs you are grabbing for straws. Enough said on this from me.

Put your arm straight up, bend it back, and give yourself a pat on the back for serving in the military. I did also.....fortunately without the chip on my shoulder towards other areas of the world.

 

[8sugarsugar]

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee
__________________
I LOVE ALL OF YOU. Don't forget it, YOU ARE ALL AWESOME! PEACE BROS!

quite the contrary, Emirates is expanding rapidly in Europe. Just added Lyon, New Castle, Warsaw, Barcelona, and Dublin.

Emirates has a lot to offer Governments. For example, trade between Texas and the UAE is in the $billions and Emirates is the bridge.

You are right about passengers not going to Dubai. About 85% of all EK passengers connect to other destinations.

Emirates has only competed directly with the Lufthansa, Air France, British airways types moving passengers between Europe, asia, africa and Aussie. Until now, the US Legacies are taking note.

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.


http://skift.com/2013/01/08/emirates-airlines-plans-for-taking-over-the-globe-part-one/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html