Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[8sugarsugar]

corrections to everybody's bullcrap above

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/emirates-files-slot-request-milan-new-york/

Emirates is applying for Milan direct JFK. If approved, passengers can buy a ticket boarding in JFK and get off in Milan.


Emirates has several 5th freedom rights, SIN-BNE; SYD-AKL; CMB-SIN to name a few.

Obama administration is very open to 5th freedom rights and you will see more.

Until now, Emirates has helped US airlines by feeding Indians into the major hubs for connections. The JFK-MXP will open some eyes.

Emirates new "partnership" with Qantas is something to take note. Qantas is outsourcing everything and maintaining the brand name. In a few years, you will see SYD-LAX, HNL, DFW etc. sold as a Qantas ticket flown on EK aircraft. EK also was able to get more slots into LHR from Qantas. Emirates was very clever on expanding "5th freedom rights" by disguising them under Qantas brand.

Dubai has some oil but all their Jet A is imported.

Emirates main advantage is cheap labor. Non English speaking baggage handlers in Dubai make $100/month. English speaking gate agents $500/month.

One reason Emirates did not do well with Hamburg - JFK because bypassing the DXB hub, they were now subject to minimum wage rules in both departure and destination staff. They no longer have any greater advantage than Lufthansa or Delta.

Shiekh Ahmed, the CEO of Emirates is also the chairman of the GCAA (the UAE FAA) Whatever EK wants, EK gets.

777-300ER cost index is 30.

Emirates is now the 4th biggest airline in the world in regards to passenger miles behind United, Delta and American

Emirates big deal is freight. Few people realize they are the 5th biggest 'cargo' airline in the world. EK could care less if they sell a single ticket as long as the belly is full. EK's expansion in America is connecting the rest of the world's freight, through DXB hub, to America.

 

[Furloughed80]

How about just answering the original question I asked? Or is the answer not what you want to hear.

It would be completely okay if the playing field was level; but it's not and you know it.

 

[8sugarsugar]

few other notes,

EK aircraft average 17 hours a day. A 777 delivered in 2008 has 32,000 hours on the airframe.

Recessions have been good for EK, they get pilots, gate space and accelerated aircraft deliveries.

Emirates also uses the Import-Export bank of the USA. America is subsidizing Emirates, not UAE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-MhvDptSkw

 

[Andy]

How about just answering the original question I asked? Or is the answer not what you want to hear.

For one reason, the US is not the only country with Fifth Freedom rights.



War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.


Edit: I didn't see 8sugarsugar's reply before posting. Whether EK is granted Fifth Freedom rights on JFK-MXP is yet to be seen; it does not meet the normal criteria for why fifth freedom rights are granted.

2d Edit: 8sugarsugar, I can't find any passenger 5th freedom rights granted by the US in recent years; care to provide any examples?

 

[X-rated]

I fly a Global Express for a private individual and live in Dubai. It's a great place to live, and I can even choose between most if not all the same, extra soft, name brand toilet paper sold in the States. I'm fortunate that my compensation package includes two full fare Business Class tickets home per year. I only fly Emirates. Since I'm a Skywards Gold member, I'm often bumped into First, but even Business Class is an enjoyable experience even on 16 hour flights. Anyone who thinks any US carrier can compete with Emirates' service or comfort needs to put down the pipe.

Yes, it's true EK benefits from cheap unskilled labor, but the skilled labor is considerably more costly than at their American counterparts. Skilled salaries are higher here, and everyone gets large housing and car allowances on top of that. Pretty much without exception, the only people who talk smack about the UAE are people who have never been here. This thread is filled with backward racism and pure ignorance. The quality of life in the UAE, especially for well paid pilots, is superb. But, for those of you who don't know any better, keep spreading your ignorance. It just helps keep our salaries high.

 

[Andy]

Emirates has several 5th freedom rights, SIN-BNE; SYD-AKL; CMB-SIN to name a few.

Australia and New Zealand operate as a single aviation market. Any airline with landing rights in one country has fifth freedom rights to the other country. That's why if you do a search of SYD-AKL you'll find non-Australia/NZ flagged airlines selling nonstop passenger tickets between the two cities ... LAN, China Airlines, Emirates, Air Tahiti Nui, etc. I don't think that United flies it anymore because it isn't cost effective.

There are a lot more cases of passenger fifth freedom rights in Asia than other parts of the world.
And of course cargo fifth freedom rights are much more common worldwide than passenger fifth freedom rights.

 

[Andy]

I can even choose between most if not all the same, extra soft, name brand toilet paper sold in the States.

Pretty much without exception, the only people who talk smack about the UAE are people who have never been here. This thread is filled with backward racism and pure ignorance.

I didn't comment on the toilet paper because I'm aware that the local Carrefour stocks different qualities of TP.

Been there. And Saudi. And Qatar. And Bahrain. And Oman.
Been a long time since I've been to UAE but it was much more progressive than most other ME countries. How long have you been in Dubai? Were you there when expats were fleeing the country for fear of being jailed after losing their jobs and unable to pay their debts?
It may be progressive by ME standards, but debtors prisons haven't existed in the western world for more than a century.
http://www.thenational.ae/business/how-the-world-is-dealing-with-the-issue-of-debtors
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...andoned-British-expats-fear-jailed-debts.html

Again, I consider the UAE as the best of the lot.

 

[Whine Lover]

That was my findings as well too. Emirates coach is a sardine can and the service was nothing over the top. He clearly hasn't flow Delta 1st on an international leg.

Note: In all my above posts I am not comparing Coach to First Class. Rather I speak of Business Class.

Considerable difference.

 

[Whine Lover]

" Anyone who thinks any US carrier can compete with Emirates' service or comfort needs to put down the pipe.

Pretty much without exception, the only people who talk smack about the UAE are people who have never been here. This thread is filled with backward racism and pure ignorance. The quality of life in the UAE, especially for well paid pilots, is superb. But, for those of you who don't know any better, keep spreading your ignorance."

Absolutely.

Thanks for making my point...again.

Now American Azz Klowns, big foam fingers in the air..." USA! USA! USA!..."

America is still a great place....But, our airlines SUCK. Period. End of Story.

That's all I'm sayin'..

YKW

 

[8sugarsugar]

There are a lot more cases of passenger fifth freedom rights in Asia than other parts of the world.
And of course cargo fifth freedom rights are much more common worldwide than passenger fifth freedom rights.

Can't think of any new passenger 5th freedom to the states, but this month, Cargo 5th freedom rights, Emirates started flying a dedicated 777 freighter Copenhagen - O'Hare

 

[Andy]

Can't think of any new passenger 5th freedom to the states, but this month, Cargo 5th freedom rights, Emirates started flying a dedicated 777 freighter Copenhagen - O'Hare

This isn't something new under Obama. Cargo 5th freedom rights have been around for a LONG time and they've been easy to obtain.
Passenger 5th freedom rights in the US? A whole 'nuther animal.

America is still a great place....But, our airlines SUCK. Period. End of Story.

I only half agree with you. Yes, our airlines SUCK.
But I'd call America a fairly good place that used to be a great place. In the last couple of years, my wife and I have seriously discussed different places on this big blue ball to live outside of the US; I did not think I would ever have that kind of conversation.

 

[8sugarsugar]

With the announcement of Emirates' request for approval of JFK-MXP, very likely it will be approved by the feds. EK doesn't make any announcements unless it is almost certain. Reason I made the comment about the Obama administration being very open to 5th freedom is the fact of all the other irons in the fire that have been accepted for review.

Irons in the fire for Emirates

DXB-Miami-Bogota
DFW-CDG (Rumor has it Boeing, DFW airport and Emirates are in serious talks of opening a western hemisphere hub)

 

[SplitBar]

I got hired at EK in 2006 as a DEC and I couldn't run away from that place fast enough. I kept in touch with 5 guys in my interview group who were also hired and each one of them ended up quitting after a couple years. Do your homework on EK. They put on a good dog and pony show but when you do a little digging it's a real crap hole of a place to live and work.

 

[Andy]

With the announcement of Emirates' request for approval of JFK-MXP, very likely it will be approved by the feds. EK doesn't make any announcements unless it is almost certain. Reason I made the comment about the Obama administration being very open to 5th freedom is the fact of all the other irons in the fire that have been accepted for review.

Irons in the fire for Emirates

DXB-Miami-Bogota
DFW-CDG (Rumor has it Boeing, DFW airport and Emirates are in serious talks of opening a western hemisphere hub)

You do understand that airlines have flown similar flights, stopping in a third country in the past but weren't 5th freedom flights, right? The way it would work is that
DXB-MXP-JFK leg: Passengers enplane at DXB only. Passengers deplane at MXP or JFK.
JFK-MXP-DXB leg: Passengers enplane at JFK or MXP. Passengers deplane only at DXB.
This is not 5th freedom rights.

 

[8sugarsugar]

yes....i know what 5th freedom rights are, that has been the entire thread.

Qantas does JFK-LAX-SYD. they can't carry pax from JFK-LAX, not 5th freedom or 9th freedom.

DXB-Miami-Bogota would be 5th freedom. Selling tickets from Miami to Bogota This is what Emirates does. This is Emirates' globalization plan. It is a huge threat to the American wide bodies...mark my words. What Qantas did is glimpse to the future.

EK just passed the 200 aircraft count (all wide bodies) with 180 more on order. They are currently taking delivery of two 777's and one 380 a month. DXB airport is full. There is no more room. They got to put them somewhere else.

 

[Varmint]

It would be completely okay if the playing field was level; but it's not and you know it.

An artificial level playing field is just not realistic in a world economy. You will never have that in any industry. You either learn how to play with the existing conditions or you fail.

 

[Varmint]

For one reason, the US is not the only country with Fifth Freedom rights.

My point exactly. Other airlines are using 5th freedom rights in and out of a multitude of countries. Is anyone complaining? No. So why now?

 

[jonjuan]

Note: In all my above posts I am not comparing Coach to First Class. Rather I speak of Business Class.

Considerable difference.

Delta doesn't have F. It's either Y or BE.

 

[Andy]

DXB-Miami-Bogota would be 5th freedom. Selling tickets from Miami to Bogota This is what Emirates does. This is Emirates' globalization plan.

But EK is not flying MIA-BOG. EK doesn't even fly to BOG. So that's not what Emirates does.

I'm guessing that this coming summer will be your first summer over there. Good luck. And stop smoking the hookah.

 

[Andy]

My point exactly. Other airlines are using 5th freedom rights in and out of a multitude of countries. Is anyone complaining? No. So why now?

YGTBSM. Educate yourself; that has to be one of the most uninformed statements I've ever read. Anywhere.

And 5th freedom rights are few and far between.