Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[Flyer1015]

Yep- yet flyer thinks it's in someway similar to the govt subsidization of ME carriers. I suppose if you want to be liberal in your use of the definition, you could say Jblu was subsidized (receiving govt help to grow) and of course virgin America who is very heavily "subsidized" by foreign entities without who's help, they would already be tits up.

Prove your case on government subsidization of ME carriers? How are they paying any less on fuel? And sure, I'd be all for more foreign ownership here. I'd rather deal with them then the crooks here running corporations and the government.

 

[Andy]

The only thing the middle east is good for is to take a dump in.

Wrong! It's a great place to take your dead batteries and any other toxic trash. At least that's what a lot of guys in my squadron did when went TDY over there again and again and again.
That, and you could buy freon there for cheap.

My point is, what is the big deal about Emirates flying to JFK from MXP.

Emirates does not have Fifth Freedom Rights so they can't sell a direct JFK-MXP seat. It has to be JFK-DXB-MXP. You MUST pass through DXB.

Prove your case on government subsidization of ME carriers? How are they paying any less on fuel? And sure, I'd be all for more foreign ownership here. I'd rather deal with them then the crooks here running corporations and the government.

I take it that the only Middle East you know about is Jersey/Delaware.
I don't know anyone who's been to the other ME for any period of time who would honestly describe it as anything other than a cesspool of bribery and corruption.

 

[Dan Roman]

..
I don't know anyone who's been to the other ME for any period of time who would honestly describe it as anything other than a cesspool of bribery and corruption.

Sounds like our "middle East" the one right between Maryland and Virginia!

 

[SplitBar]

Flying coach on Emirates puts American, Delta, and United Business Class to shame...

Just sayin'.

YKW

Emirates coach is nothing to write home about. Their 1st class is a little better but not much. I have flown them both. A recent survey had Deltas 1st class ranked higher than Emirates. Delta 1st compared to Emirates Coach....not even close.

 

[SplitBar]

I have a hard time believing this. I flew EK SFO-DXB in Economy. It was 10 abreast seating and it was complete torture. Even UA and DL do only 9 abreast in Economy. BusinessFirst lie flat seat is just no comparison at all to Economy on EK.

That was my findings as well too. Emirates coach is a sardine can and the service was nothing over the top. He clearly hasn't flow Delta 1st on an international leg.

 

[Varmint]

Delta got that by merging with NWA,

NWA had that since Dec 1947 approved by US and Japanese Government because the launched Japan Airlines.
PANAM got that as well which was sold to United in 85....

So it's ok for the U.S. airlines but no other airlines who can get 5th freedom routes approved?

Congress should ban the Gulf Airlines because 37 percent tax on the ticket sales versus 10 percent on a 40 billion dollar yearly gross sales is over 10 billion more taxes for Delta or United or American versus Emirates

Sounds like a personal problem to me. The US government needs to fix their obsession with taxation. Every country has different taxation rates/strategies and there is never a level playing field for airlines based in different countries.

 

[Varmint]

Sounds like our "middle East" the one right between Maryland and Virginia!

This is the best and the most FAIR statement on this thread.

 

[Andy]

Sounds like our "middle East" the one right between Maryland and Virginia!

Well played, but it's several orders of magnitude different.

 

[Andy]

So it's ok for the U.S. airlines but no other airlines who can get 5th freedom routes approved?

Do a little homework and find out how and why the US got Fifth Freedom rights.

 

[Varmint]

Do a little homework and find out how and why the US got Fifth Freedom rights.

How about just answering the original question I asked? Or is the answer not what you want to hear.

 

[8sugarsugar]

corrections to everybody's bullcrap above

http://www.airlinehubbuzz.com/emirates-files-slot-request-milan-new-york/

Emirates is applying for Milan direct JFK. If approved, passengers can buy a ticket boarding in JFK and get off in Milan.


Emirates has several 5th freedom rights, SIN-BNE; SYD-AKL; CMB-SIN to name a few.

Obama administration is very open to 5th freedom rights and you will see more.

Until now, Emirates has helped US airlines by feeding Indians into the major hubs for connections. The JFK-MXP will open some eyes.

Emirates new "partnership" with Qantas is something to take note. Qantas is outsourcing everything and maintaining the brand name. In a few years, you will see SYD-LAX, HNL, DFW etc. sold as a Qantas ticket flown on EK aircraft. EK also was able to get more slots into LHR from Qantas. Emirates was very clever on expanding "5th freedom rights" by disguising them under Qantas brand.

Dubai has some oil but all their Jet A is imported.

Emirates main advantage is cheap labor. Non English speaking baggage handlers in Dubai make $100/month. English speaking gate agents $500/month.

One reason Emirates did not do well with Hamburg - JFK because bypassing the DXB hub, they were now subject to minimum wage rules in both departure and destination staff. They no longer have any greater advantage than Lufthansa or Delta.

Shiekh Ahmed, the CEO of Emirates is also the chairman of the GCAA (the UAE FAA) Whatever EK wants, EK gets.

777-300ER cost index is 30.

Emirates is now the 4th biggest airline in the world in regards to passenger miles behind United, Delta and American

Emirates big deal is freight. Few people realize they are the 5th biggest 'cargo' airline in the world. EK could care less if they sell a single ticket as long as the belly is full. EK's expansion in America is connecting the rest of the world's freight, through DXB hub, to America.

 

[Furloughed80]

How about just answering the original question I asked? Or is the answer not what you want to hear.

It would be completely okay if the playing field was level; but it's not and you know it.

 

[8sugarsugar]

few other notes,

EK aircraft average 17 hours a day. A 777 delivered in 2008 has 32,000 hours on the airframe.

Recessions have been good for EK, they get pilots, gate space and accelerated aircraft deliveries.

Emirates also uses the Import-Export bank of the USA. America is subsidizing Emirates, not UAE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-MhvDptSkw

 

[Andy]

How about just answering the original question I asked? Or is the answer not what you want to hear.

For one reason, the US is not the only country with Fifth Freedom rights.



War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.


Edit: I didn't see 8sugarsugar's reply before posting. Whether EK is granted Fifth Freedom rights on JFK-MXP is yet to be seen; it does not meet the normal criteria for why fifth freedom rights are granted.

2d Edit: 8sugarsugar, I can't find any passenger 5th freedom rights granted by the US in recent years; care to provide any examples?

 

[X-rated]

I fly a Global Express for a private individual and live in Dubai. It's a great place to live, and I can even choose between most if not all the same, extra soft, name brand toilet paper sold in the States. I'm fortunate that my compensation package includes two full fare Business Class tickets home per year. I only fly Emirates. Since I'm a Skywards Gold member, I'm often bumped into First, but even Business Class is an enjoyable experience even on 16 hour flights. Anyone who thinks any US carrier can compete with Emirates' service or comfort needs to put down the pipe.

Yes, it's true EK benefits from cheap unskilled labor, but the skilled labor is considerably more costly than at their American counterparts. Skilled salaries are higher here, and everyone gets large housing and car allowances on top of that. Pretty much without exception, the only people who talk smack about the UAE are people who have never been here. This thread is filled with backward racism and pure ignorance. The quality of life in the UAE, especially for well paid pilots, is superb. But, for those of you who don't know any better, keep spreading your ignorance. It just helps keep our salaries high.