Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[COpilot]

Looks like CAL is protecting the over 60 pilots again.

How many over 60 pilots did CAL have in the training department and in fake management positions waiting for the over 60 rule to change? 100, 200 over 60 pilots prior to Dec. 13, 2007!

Stop shooting off your trap with no facts. 200/100/60 BS numbers just to piss people off? What A$$ you are. Craw back in your hole and don't come out unless you have something with merit to say.

And yes, I agree with you that the (17) hide outs were a BS deal; and should have never been allowed to be here.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

You need to check your facts. There were only 17 hidden instructors/management pilots over 60 when the law passed, and its being grieved.

17 is more than 0 and a fake number.

17 only includes those who were in management and by FAR also needed to be qualified as line pilots by law. i.e. A chief pilot needs to be a legal current qualified part 121 line pilot by FAR and at the time under 60 to be in such a position.

But the 17 number does not include large numbers of over 60 pilots being held in off-line training positions not needing to be legally qualified part 121 pilots who remained on the seniority list. And while they were not in violation of FAR's in their off-line positions their seniority was kept alive on the overall seniority list.

And at the time every other airline was retiring pilots on their 60th birthday prior to Dec. 13, 2007.

How long is the grievance going to take? 5 years. And then what does it matter? CAL ALPA is worthless. And so are the CAL pilots if they are not outraged by this injustice.

 

[densoo]

"In contrast, the United MEC believes negotiations for a JCBA and the SLI process should remain on separate tracks."

Doublespeak from Capt Morris worthy of Carl Rove saying that Max Cleland (who is a triple amputee from war) is unpatriotic. Great stuff. They were on separate tracks until the UAL MEC jumped in.

The two MECs agreed to let the negotiating committees do their business without interference to bring to the table a JCBA. When the UAL NC made rational decisions based on the information in front of them, the UAL MEC disagreed. They broke the agreement to let the NCs arrive at a JCBA and jumped into the process.

Now UAL MEC will delay the contract until they don't even have 747s on the property anymore, all the while CAL grows their mainline with dozens of new aircraft coming online, all furloughs returned, and hiring (ironically, UAL pilots) in the spring. All the while UAL has 1500 furloughs back to 1999. Every day that goes by UAL "career expectations" diminish while CAL's increase.

Additional bonus: retropay check gets bigger every day.

...."if the United pilots don’t give him what he wants, he will hold up negotiations for years"--one can only hope.

 

[captbert]

17 is more than 0 and a fake number.

17 only includes those who were in management and by FAR also needed to be qualified as line pilots by law. i.e. A chief pilot needs to be a legal current qualified part 121 line pilot by FAR and at the time under 60 to be in such a position.

But the 17 number does not include large numbers of over 60 pilots being held in off-line training positions not needing to be legally qualified part 121 pilots who remained on the seniority list. And while they were not in violation of FAR's in their off-line positions their seniority was kept alive on the overall seniority list.

And at the time every other airline was retiring pilots on their 60th birthday prior to Dec. 13, 2007.

How long is the grievance going to take? 5 years. And then what does it matter? CAL ALPA is worthless. And so are the CAL pilots if they are not outraged by this injustice.

It was 17 and only 17. That is the total number of pilots that were over 60 and on our seniority list when the law changed. I have the seniority lists with birth dates to prove it.

I'm sure it will take another 2 years to have the grievance/lawsuit settled. Just long enough for them all to retire. I am outraged over it, but its out of may hands. I have done all I can do personally so why should I continue to stress over it.

As far as CAL ALPA being worthless, I cant argue there. But I am sure glad they are digging there heals in on your cheep seniority grab with the 744. I will sit on the 767 making more money than your 744 guys for as long as it takes for you to pull your collective heads out of your butts.

Just remember over the next few years CAL has a greater percentage of pilots retiring and CAL has yearly deliveries of mid and widebody airplanes. UAL's airplanes don't show up for another 5 years.

As far as I'm concerned you can keep all your 744's, crappy pay rates, 70 seat RJ's, aging airplanes, and Air Lingus JV. Wow with that list it looks like UAL ALPA has been worthless too.

Ciao

 

[bluefin]

Screw all of this, SCOPE should be first and foremost!!! Like the CAL mec stated,"whats the point of getting pay/seniority when your on the street without a job". That should be the most important satement to live by!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

You want me to grow up? How about asking the union to grow up. Instead of working together they are working to further divide our pilot groups. Lets start a pool. How many current union "leaders" at CAL and UAL will move on to management positions in the next 5 years?

It will be a cold day in hell when this CAL REP Goes To Management!
Will never happen!

Jayson Baron
EWR CAL CA Rep

 

[Flopgut]

CAL-MEC and its officers have advocated that the compensation proposal be crafted a certain way – specifically with regard to which aircraft are banded together – in the hopes of “leveling the playing field” and attempting to thwart our predominantly large wide body fleet.

Thwart?! Thwart what Wendy? What are you talking about? Why would there be any "thwarting" going on if you want to keep JCBA wages out of SLI!!?? Because unless you intend to somehow insert the separate, higher 744 pay rate into the SLI equation there is absolutely nothing to "thwart"! Seriously. I think she just screwed up and revealed a lie in her own letter.

CAL guys: Brucia knows what to do with this.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Hvy,

Call your reps and ask them. Don't listen to the guy you're flying with. Ask a REP.

The JOINT negotiating committee came to an agreement on Section 3. There is no disputing this fact. The CAL MEC approved of the JNC's agreement. The UAL MEC did not.

What is written above is 100% accurate.

Jayson Baron
EWR CAL CA Rep

 

[AWACoff]

At the end of the day pay rates, both pre-merger and JCBA, were inconsequential in constructing the DAL/NWA seniority list.

Arguments from different perspectives were made by both sides, but it really didn't matter much.

Don't let this derail your merger.

Get a JCBA and keep the pay issues associated with the JCBA out of the seniority list process.

Please see Section XI, Paragraph C.1 through C.4 of the Ground Rules For The Northwest-Delta Pilot Seniority Integration Arbitration:
XI. Joint Exhibits and Stipulations.

The following documents shall be considered Joint Exhibits and shall be submitted to the Board prior to the commencement of the arbitration:

C. 1., 2., 3 and 4. Northwest and Delta Pre-Merger and Combined Collective Bargaining and Retirement Agreements, and Delta LOA 19.


FDJ2, you are incorrect.

 

[Flopgut]

It looks like the 70+ seat RJ's are going to be safe for a while.

If anything, it's an even more precarious situatuion for Skywest now....