Messaba CRJ

[ImbracableCrunk]

IF! I said if my math was right!

Okay, I guess I heard wrong, the most junior Captain would be Mar01 hire. Still, I think that if you switched seats, you'd miss the earliest upgrade.

This is moot, because we all know that as XJ and E9 pilots we will be FOs on NWA70 EMB170s inside of 2 years. (It's a FACT! Somebody who KNOWS told me!)

 

[fly4ever]

You're getting closer. The most junior (system wide) captain is from the Jan 01 class and was awarded on the last vacancy. The next vacancy will be awarded on 7/12. It may continue to go junior for a couple more classes then as Sept/Oct roll around it will probably swing back to more senior FOs taking those openings.

 

[Chris9702l]

It will come down fast

The upgrade will come skyrocketing down soon. Starting in Sept-Oct we will be getting 3 CRJ's a month, which equals 15 people upgrading to the CRJ, which equals 15 people upgrading on the Saab. This is assuming that all the new CRJ captains come from the Saab (a few will come from the Avro). And heck if we get the next 20, which I can't see why not (XJ won't invest all this money for just 15), then the floodgates will remain open. Just hope the B model Saabs stay around (suppose too).

Chris

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The reason upgrade times will drop so much is because of the nearly 2 years that we didn't hire anyone. When looking 1 number up the seniority list means a 2 year difference in date of hire that's a big change in upgrade time in the blink of an eye.

 

[fly4ever]

You are forgetting that there are 160+ FOs that have more than 4 1/2 years here and have been bypassing for the summer. While it's true upgrades will continue for some time don't expect them to go very far down the list for the first 15 CRJs. The next 20 are likely to come but until we see any of them with our name and sitting at our gates don't assume too much.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Very true. I don't see things remaining as junior as they are currently. But my point was at some point when the upgrades hit that part of the list then there will be an immediate 2 year reduction in wait time because there was a 2 year gap in hiring. Let's say that you were the one hired August 01 right before the cutoff. Let's then say I was one hired on July 03 (I'm not btw) If upgrades then come along for say 12 captains we could be sitting in the same class just a couple seniority numbers apart but a 2 year difference in date of hire. And following classes would all also be 2+ years junior to you even if they are right behind you in the seniority list. Are either of "us" in the example looking at an upgrade right now, nope. Will this happen if the second group of CRJ's show up right on the heels of the first batch? Maybe.
That is what I was talking about with upgrade times dropping 2 years. (unless we go through another 2 year freeze right at that point in upgrades)

 

[Yudso]

Mesaba is staffed at a little less than a 1:1 captain to fo ratio. If mesaba hires 110 fo's from july to december wouldn't that equate to about 110 upgrades?

 

[fly4ever]

The ratio is generally a higher number of captains to FOs since captains have more accrued vacation time. You need more captains to cover the time off. (doesn't apply though when the company cancels vacations like they have been doing forever).

 

[DoinTime]

If mesaba hires 110 fo's from july to december wouldn't that equate to about 110 upgrades?

No...that would equate to 55 upgrades. Everytime you add a captain you need to hire two more FO's because the new captain used to be an FO.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

Has anyone else ever wondered where these airlines park these new planes? I mean Mesaba is scheduled to get 15 or 30 at MSP. I was just at MSP not to long ago and it seemed packed. Where the hell are they going to put these things?

 

[DoinTime]

Has anyone else ever wondered where these airlines park these new planes? I mean Mesaba is scheduled to get 15 or 30 at MSP. I was just at MSP not to long ago and it seemed packed. Where the hell are they going to put these things?

I think Mesaba's first vacancy was for MSP. That doesn't mean that all of them are going to there. I'd bet to see CRJ domiciles in all three hubs at Mesaba for another degree of work stoppage redundancy.

Gates C-13 thru C-15 are to be converted into 5 CRJ gates. Long term plans have gates C-5 thru C-12 to be converted into 18 more RJ gates. I would bet though that most of the new capacity being added will go to fueling expansion in DSM, MKE, and, IND.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

expansion

I think they should get a chicago base too

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Wouldn't be surprised if 9E slowly gets pushed outta MSP in the process...

 

[LivinDaDream]

There will be about 75 new CPT positions with the initial 15 CRJs. XJ's goal is about 5 Cpts per A/C to 4 FOs. fly4ever was correct about the vacation issue, although the number of vactions cancelled is limited by CBA and most of the cancelations this year have been FO's, but there is also the extra simulator event per year and more FTI's and MGMNT pilots among the CPT's. However, I can't remember a time when they have actually reached that number for more than a few months.

The 110 number that keeps flying around is just to cover deliveries through December. 4 additional A/C will be delivered after the 1st of the year. The 110 FO number is higher than the CRJ allocation to cover the extra number of FO to CPT that will be in class.

Like Workin'Stiff said, I believe that 9E will see a down sizing in MSP at some point. The reason is 3 fold.. 1. Lack of space 2. NWA Whipsaw (they know that a lot of MSP pilots live there) 3. 9E will see alot of the growth in IND and MKE for some time and that can be originated out of MEM and DTW fairly easily.

 

[PCL_128]

Wouldn't be surprised if 9E slowly gets pushed outta MSP in the process...

Gotta love the Red Tail labor relations.

 

[DoinTime]

Like Workin'Stiff said, I believe that 9E will see a down sizing in MSP at some point. The reason is 3 fold.. 1. Lack of space 2. NWA Whipsaw (they know that a lot of MSP pilots live there) 3. 9E will see alot of the growth in IND and MKE for some time and that can be originated out of MEM and DTW fairly easily.

1. Space is a concern in MSP. The few CRJ's that Mesaba is getting though can be accommodated.

2. If NWA wanted to use this as a whipsaw they would push PCL out of MEM. Thats were most of our pilots live. Well over half the MSP pilot population commutes.

3. Most all of the flying out of MKE is done through MSP. A considerable amount of IND flying is done through MSP as well.

Its not likely that NW will put PCL into a position where they have to displace pilots out of MSP. We have some of the best contract displacement rules in the industry and it would cost PCL a fortune to enact such measures. Besides that it would be absolutely stupid for NW to concentrate Mesaba's presence in just one base. That defeats the entire purpose of having multiple carriers operating the same aircraft.

 

[LivinDaDream]

All valid points and I'm not starting a debate. Just my opinions. It looks as if XJ will get 35 CRJs, so the "few" comment may not apply. My guess is the first 15 in MSP and then the rest spread out.

As for the cost concerns, NWA is infamous for spending large amounts of money to pi$$ off labor with very little return on their investment. NWA will be footing the bill, not 9E. Any and all types of displacements are possible, including closing existing bases and opening new ones. It happened to us with the SAABs going to MEM during negotiations along with closing 2 domiciles and our displacement language is as solid as 9E. Not trying to pick apart your post, but don't put anything past NWA now that Sect. 6 has begun.

Always think worst case scenario with these guys cause NWA will go there to try and break you.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Absolutely, if NWA wants XJ's planes or in this case, 9E's planes somewhere, they'll get it. What big brother wants, big brother gets. Both of our companies are at Northwest's beckoning call. And this history between our company's shows that we'll do just about anything to stay "in favor" with Northwest.

 

[LivinDaDream]

Hopefully we can keep the pilots of both groups informed enough to realize that. Normally, we all start blaming eachother for our managements' decisions. The only power that we have is in our solidarity.

 

[RJComm]

See I got a call about a month ago from a HR person out there at "MESABA" and she told me that they are planning on putting me in the CRJ but I would have to wait till Aug to get a class date. From what I understand the Aug 340 class is all upgrades and no initial FOs. And I dont understand why this post is rubbing some people the wrong way, I am happy to just have a job but since I do have this little bit of information about the AC I think I will be assigned I figured I would try to obtain some information about it. I would ask the same questions if I thought I was going to get the 340 or avro but we all already know how the schedules work for those AC.

Man, Congrats for the job. are u going to canda for trainning or something like that?

 

[Crizz]

If anything, be GLAD you didnt get hired into the Avro. Virtually NO movement. CRJ may help things out a bit. If you're going to commute either way, then it probably doesnt matter much to you. Remember though, there are many FO's on the BAC commuting that would kill to sit reserve in MSP.

I dont know where you live, but in my opinion commuting is for the birds. Especially for a crappy reserve or build up, or even high speed line.

The people that would actually switch over to the CRJ are the ones that cant. The company locks you in equipment type for 3 years as a new hire, unless you can upgrade.

I'd gladly bid into the Saab or CRJ. The holier than thou Avro attitude is total BS, because flying the Avro comes at such an expense of QOL.

Good luck and welcome aboard. This really is a good place to be, especially right now. If you live in MSP, count your blessings you got hired in the Saab or CRJ.

 

[keith]

Qol ?

Crizz,

How can you say that QOL suffers in the Avro? Didn't you get a full 1.5 hours (at the hotel) on a highspeed last week???

-Keith

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Remember the pay is the same for all the types for F/O's and it's all multi turbine time. Last I checked noone gives you bonus points for flying a 4 engine plane any more than flying a plane with 2 flight attendants (or more). The only difference is personal QOL issues like base location and days off.

 

[Crizz]

Remember the pay is the same for all the types for F/O's and it's all multi turbine time. Last I checked noone gives you bonus points for flying a 4 engine plane any more than flying a plane with 2 flight attendants (or more). The only difference is personal QOL issues like base location and days off.

Bingo exactly!

 

[Rook]

Remember the pay is the same for all the types for F/O's and it's all multi turbine time. Last I checked noone gives you bonus points for flying a 4 engine plane any more than flying a plane with 2 flight attendants (or more). The only difference is personal QOL issues like base location and days off.

Spoken like a veteran already. The force is strong in this one.

 

[Yudso]

What happened to the CRJ CA openings on the revised vacancy? Are we falling further behind?

 

[xcr600]

From what I have been told some of the initial training will be completed at MSP and the AC specific stuff will be in Canada. Can any of you guys who have access to mymesaba see what is going on with class dates for this thing as far as FOs are concerned. I am starting to find other people who have been told the same thing as I have (waiting game) and we are all starting to wonder.

 

[Crizz]

As Yudso mentioned, they just removed the mention of the 4 initial captains on vacancy 5-10 revison this afternoon. I would expect to see an award and a new all inclusive vacancy late this week or early next week.

 

[RampTower]

Not to hijack the original topic (sorta related)

It might be too early, but anyone hear what cities we're flying to with the CRJ? New? overlapping? old -9 routes?

I noticed PHX in our bid packages the last two months. This was a rumor in the crewroom til I saw it. The nearest avro city is SLC? and PHX as an alternate is kinda out of the way.

 

[DoinTime]

I noticed PHX in our bid packages the last two months. This was a rumor in the crewroom til I saw it. The nearest avro city is SLC? and PHX as an alternate is kinda out of the way.

Considering PHX flights can sometimes goes weeks without an empty seat I doubt they would put a CRJ on it. We are doing MSP-TUS overnights and have PHX in the Jepps for an alternate. Can the avro make an 1100+ mile flight with reserves?