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Mesaba

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Valid points about nwa "eating their young" and 9e being most vulnerable.

It reminds me of a conversation with a recently furloughed american fo a year and a half ago. She was talking about how rough it was to be furloughed. All I could think of was how I would be happy to trade places for a seniority number at a mainline. Wonder how many airlink folks would brave unemployment or a different job for a few years, in exchange for better pay, lifestyle, and retirement in the long run?
Most of our fo's could do better on the outside today, which is why they have nothing to lose in this contract battle.

Perhaps a poll by the mec's would be interesting....all who volunteer to hit the street for a seniority number, raise your hands!!!!
 
>>>>Mesaba is interviewing/hiring<<<<

It is official. Mesaba is hiring. How many? Not sure. 15-20 is the number going around the crew room these days. All furloughs were called back too or at least the ones that wanted to come back. And apparently they are only accepting resumes through current pilots. interviews are being conducted next week.

Word of caution. With Mesaba's current situation (contract negotiations and Saab retirements later this year), do not quit your current job if you get on here. If you can somehow go part time and convince your boss that you will be back, I'd recommend it. Everyone is speculating that all these furlough callbacks are just for summer flying (which is evident of last summer), which includes the new hires. Once summer is done and the Saab A-models go away this Fall, you will get furloughed.

Lets do the math. All furloughs are called back. And you interview next week. You get a class. Ok, groundschool for a couple of weeks. Then sim training. By then it's early August. Then your IOE. Now it's mid to late August. Guess what? Summer flying is nearly done. September rolls around. Everyone is back to school and parents back to work. NWA dramatically reduces its flying and we start losing the rest of our Saab A models = ..........

As for "Ksu Aviator"'s post. Some of us may know who he is from our Mesaba ALPA msg board. Blaming Mesaba for setting you back 2 years is not fair. This industry is all about timing and a little luck. Mesaba was a great place to work until recently. But guess what??!??! ALL airlines go through this crap. And putting Mesaba below Great Lakes is almost insulting. Just because YOU didn't get off reserve and YOU didn't upgrade and YOU got furloughed twice doesn't mean XJ is a lousy place to work. We've got furloughs from the Sept 4 2001 class that are still hanging around! Talk about dedication.

I commute to work every week and I can't stress how many pilots(including mainline) are supporting us. Most of us XJ pilots are just riding this out. There's really not a whole lot we can do at this point, except stand together and not give into ANY concessions. Just save what we can for a possible strike and continue to do our job day in and day out. Once we get a new contract, things will improve.
 
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T-Handle,
I couldn't agree more. You obviously talk like the true professionals that we have working here at MSA. I like so many of those close to the bottom have gotten used to the fact that we aren't going anywhere, anytime soon, and to just make the most of the time that we do have here. I personally like to stay away from the crew room talk, but every now and then it's good to hear that people are passionate about this company and the committment that they have made to Mesaba in the long run. I don't know much about Great Lakes, but I'm not about to go and say that they are a bad outfit, I never flew there and don't know anyone flying for them. Sure, we're going through a bad time, but I think that once this new contract is signed, sealed and delivered, Mesaba will shine as it once did, the airline of choice for the aviation professional.
 
We all may as well buy Powerball tickets right now, because there is just as good a chance of one of us winning that as there is with a one-list for red-tailers.
 
We've got furloughs from the Sept 4 2001 class that are still hanging around! Talk about dedication.

Just for clarification ...

I was in that class. There were 4 saab guys and 4 jet guys. I don't know about the avro crew, but I know that none of the saab guys are coming back. 2 are at skywest, one at ACA and one has left aviation.

Good luck with the new contract. :)

MKAY!!
 
hiring

I can confirm they are hiring as well. My interview is next week and I am more than a little nervous about possibly getting hired and furloughed immediately after. There is probably no way I can go part time at my current job (I just started freight dogging last week) but if XJ offers me a job I don't think I could turn it down. An airline is what I've been waiting for, and Mesaba is the only airline to call me in about 10 months of trying (not suprising considering the industry of course). I'm curious if other XJ pilots out there have the same grim prognosis as T-handle did. I heard XJ has been short of pilots for awhile so maybe they won't have to furlough a bunch in the fall. Anybody else know anything or have any predictions???
 
I may be totally wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but with our current contract negotiations, I believe that the company would do ANYTIHING they could short of hiring in order to leverage their bargaining position. It's hard to plead poverty at the negotiating table when you are hiring new pilots because we cant keep staffing high enough to cover all the flying. If they were planning on furloughing more in the short term, I would think that they would rather continue to cancel vacations and possibly some flights rather than go through the time and expense required to get new pilots on line only to furlough in a few months. Now with that said furloughs are a possiblity at nearly ALL airlines during the current economic times. Will XJ furlough again? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think anybody knows for sure. It's a decision you will have to make for yourself. You will hear a lot of whining about the current contract situation, but contract times are always difficult. Same crap during the 95-96 contract negotiations. I think the people who are complaining the loudest have never seen negotiations before, and expected that after flight instructing for 9 months and acquiring a vast 1000/100 that they were GUARANTEED an airline job and would then be GUARANTEED to move on to the majors in a year or two. Many had never seen a downturn in the airline industry, and reality bites sometimes. Wasn't too long ago that 3000/1000 MIGHT get you an interview with a regional, and no hope for a major yet. So maybe it's time for a reality check and talk to instructors who are stuck at that level now for a while, and see where they would rather be building time, in a 152 or a CRJ or turboprop. Should you come to XJ? That's a personal decision, but here's something to consider. Will you be more marketable in 6 mos or a year if you continue to fly your current position or have 6 mos or a year experence in a Saab or Avro operated under 121? Good luck on your interview!
 
That makes alot of sense and thanks for the input. That is pretty much what I am thinking - even if furlough is a possibility (which it almost invariably is, especially now) that experience would be more marketable if I was furloughed. Oh well, I've got to get myself hired first! On another subject- anybody know if they will be hiring into the avro this time around?? When I worked the ramp there I heard the schedules were worse on the jet but it would still be pretty cool to fly one.
 
XJ Captain is right. XJ is a great place to work in spite of the current NWA appointed management team.

I'm sorry that some might think coming to XJ put their careers behind. People who think in terms of getting on with a major airline in the next five years might think that way. I don't think the "big four" majors will be hiring any new pilots (vs. recalling furloughs) for seven or more years. The trend is toward having regionals do the flying. We simple do it just as well for as much as 80% less than mainline. They don't charge less for tickets on flights flown by "Airlink" so the advantage of increased margins is clear.

The worse the economy gets, the more flying NWA will give to the "Airlinks".

As for Mesaba hiring now, I think if they could have, they would have avoided recalling pilots from furlough until they could squeeze us into signing another concessionary contract (not gonna happen). Somebody, probably at Northwest, decided that the "cost" of having to hire more pilots in terms of contract negotiations was a lot less than the cost of NOT having us do the increased flying.

These guys (management) look more like "The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight" every day but even they can figure out that it will be September before any of the newhires (this batch of 20) will fly the line. They say it's around $40,000 to train a new hire in the Avro. That's $800,000 in training pilots they're not going to use if you assume they'll get furloughed in September. (It seems to be jet FO's they're short of). To me that indicates they believe the increased levels of flying will continue into September and through the winter. I don't think this batch has as much to worry about furloughs as the earlier (pre-9/11) classes did.

Nothing is certain but that's what I think.

I think we are poised for some growth after we sign a new contract so this could end up a really good time to get on the seniority list....

Good luck to everyone applying!

S
 
Spocksbeard,
I wouldn't call T-handle's prognosis grim. Just listen to what he and xjcaptain are saying and take it for what it's worth. These are the cold hard facts that they are telling you. It's up to you to decide. Yeah, it's not all rose's and cute little bunnies here at Mesaba right now...but then again, where is it? JetBlue? Forget that unless you are a furloughed mainline from United or US Airways with at least 5000 PIC in the bus. I think that it's great that you are interviewing with Mesaba, however, you are the one that needs to make the final decision on whether or not you want to be here. Hiring at this point in our negotiations will be to our advantage and your's should you be hired. I can tell you this...the greatest thing about working at Mesaba are the people that work here. They are passionate, hard working, professionals that anyone would love to work with. When all is said and done, it's a great job, even if there are some bumps along the career path. Good luck.
 
First off let me clarify some of my statements. I wouldn't discourage anyone from applying and interviewing at Mesaba. I'm not saying it's a horrible place because if it is, I wouldn't be here. However, what I am trying to say is our "CURRENT situation" is not promising.

I may be wrong in that everyone recalled and hired will be furloughed. My guess is as good as any other XJ pilot's guess. That's up to MGT which in turn is up to NWA marketing. (Also bear in mind that 3 Saabs were badly damaged from a recent tornado touching down in MSP. Not sure if any AVROs were hurt. This is also another blow to our flying.) We are all just guessing that everyone recalled and hired will be furloughed (again) in the Fall but maybe there's something we don't know.

I said for anyone that is being recalled or interviewing to hang onto their current job or work something out with their boss knowing you might be back where u work now. For those that have never interviewed with an airline, it could be good practice. For those hired, it's just getting that seniority number so that when we get a new contract (assuming that too) and start growing, you'll have a number here and will be recalled and life will be grand again.

Once again, Mesaba's current situation is not the greatest. But realize that ALL airlines go through these times, in all shapes, sizes and forms. Some minor, others bad. Going on strike sucks and we hope to avoid one. I enjoy working with the people here. It's just MGT and how they're dragging their nutz at the table that is pissing me off. And there's one (hairless) MSP chief pilot in particular that annoys me (and probably many more of us). Every time I pass him in the airport, I take off my hat and look away.

Anyway, good luck to those applying/interviewing. And don't drink too much of the Kool-Aid that MGT will feed you at the interviewing table.
 
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I second T-Handle,

Mesaba is just too unstable to quit one job to come over here. My guess is that XJ management will furlogh again.
 
Simon Says,

I think "unstable" is too strong of a word. "Unpredictable", yes but not unstable.

Mesaba is a strong company, virtually never having failed to make a profit and is still more than 25% bigger than Pinnacle. If it weren't for the contract negotiations, Mesaba's growth would have continued along with Pinnacle's. Since the pendulum will undoubtedly swing in the other direction once the pilot contract is signed, this may be a very good time to get on with Mesaba.

Pinnacle's amendable date is now less than two years away so if "The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight" dawdles much longer, they'll miss the chance to whipsaw the Pinnacle pilots.

The fact that Mesaba is hiring pilots now that won't be able to fly the line until after the usual "annual furlough" time may just be an indication that NWA couldn't avoid starting the pendulum in Mesaba's direction now. They just have too much flying they want to give to the "discount" regionals. (Cuz the regionals are money makers and mainline is a money loser). Spandex and company will deny it, of course, and nothing is ever certain but I don't think they'd hire right now unless they had good reason to believe they would actually need the pilots through the winter.

It's a pretty expensive means of keeping the pilots scratching their heads, don't you think?

Cheers,

S
 
My parents taught me when I was a kid that I should make sound decisions based on thorough evaluation and weighing of all consequences (they must have known I was going to be a pilot.) They also taught me that when that is done, sometimes going with your instincts and gut feelings are the way to tip the scale for that ultimate decision. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've followed that advice. It hasn't been a smooth paved road of course, because it never is. No matter how high the city budget is there will always be potholes. But I have been mostly right in all my gut feeling based decisions. Women, friends, purchases and of course, my job.

After 9/11 I was dangerously close to the bottom and angonized everyday on what I should do with myself. Should I quit and jump ship to somewhere else? Should I run away from the "contract blues" and forget aviation so early in my career? I'm not a quitter and not usually overreactionary (well, sometimes) so I decided to see what happens. I survived the first round of furloughs. Then the second. I decided to opt again with the gut feeling and analytical approach to things. I've decided to stick this bumpy road out and stay comitted to XJ. After all, XJ was my number 1 choice to airlines to work at. No matter how bitter things may get here, I'm still comitted to our passengers, fellow employees and my job. I'm young and have MANY years of aviation ahead of me. I will not blame Mesaba for the last 3 years of my life (ok - maybe only the pay and debt the awful pay has caused - but I knew the $$$ wasn't bling bling coming into this job). I don't feel behind any of my peers. Why? Becuase I went with my gut. If I had gone to Coex = furloughed. Eagle = furloughed. YOu just can't predict the furture, but can make sound decisions and go with the outcome. We all made the choice to come to Mesaba, nobody forced us, and to blame XJ for the career progressions, or lack there of, as highlighted by KSU - and we all know who he is - is just immature and irresponsible.

I guess what I'm saying is what all the other XJ pilots have already said on this board. Take all the information available to you. Eat it, digest it and come up with a conscious decision that is best for YOU. Then stick with it and take the punches as they come to you. COntract blues happen at every airline, it's just our turn. Maybe getting in now, really IS the best thing. Who knows... I don't. Only you can.

Good luck on the interview.... be yourself and tell them honest answers, not what you think they want to hear. Mesaba is made up of the best aviation folks out there - as mentioned before. I enjoy myself at work because of the passengers and my coworkers. Share with us if you want how it went. I'm curious to know what they'll tell you and if you'll watch the "SImply the best" video (yes PCL boys and girls, that phrase was coined at XJ long before your company started putting those banners in the DTW hallway).

FO
 
forget the "simply the best" video. the big question is if Tyson is going to be there. she is much better to watch than that video.
 
wtf

any one else ever notice that when xj's in trouble or getting screwed they talk about "brother hood among pinnacle and mesaba" but 2 days later you get bashing 9e or something like that?
 
SeaX

I'm not sure who you are, who you work for or how much you know, so I will try to fill you in.

While I don't condone 'bashing' 9E, I will admit that not everyone here at Xj is behaving as they should.

That being said, I doubt any XJer is really targeting the people at 9E, we simply recognize that in the corporate shell game being played over at 5101 Northwest Drive, Eagan, MN Pinnacle has the spotlight, for now. Most all of us are aware that the majority of the pilots at 9E support us and mean us no harm, it is NWA that is using 9E to antagonize the pilots of XJ.

Please notice that I said the majority of the 9E pilots, this was not a mistake. Back in 1997 when XJ was in the spotlight, and 9E was languishing in the corner, NWA consolidated all of the Airlink flying in MSP and gave that flying to XJ. The pilots at Mesaba Airlines agreed to allow pilots from 9E to transfer to XJ with seniority. Not only did the captains from 9E come with either 1-2 or 1-3 seniority, but FOs came over with a specific date, several months before they were actually hired, effectively leap-frogging several new hire classes, including mine.

We did not have to do this, we did it because it was the right thing to do. For me the difference is between holding a line and being on build-up/reserve. And despite the fact that I suffer from the effects of having people who came on property after I did, but have several months of seniority over me, I support this action and I am glad we did it, it is indicative of this pilot group's integrity.

One provision of the letter of agreement was that if the situation were to be reversed, the MECs would need to meet and work out a reciprocal deal with conditions no less favorable for Mesaba pilots.

So with Mesaba shrinking, furloughing pilots (thankfully they have been recalled) and losing airplanes while Pinnacle gets CRJs, hires and migrates North what happens to this agreement?

Nothing. The pinnacle mec does nothing, splits hairs over how the transfer of flying isnt the same as '97 or some cr*p. Pardone my language, but that is a load of b*llsh*t.

See my login name? See my signature? I am no longer a CWASaab driver because of 9E flights into CWA, specifically overnights. Or how about we talk to the folks at stations like ATW, LNK, and ELM? A pay cut to work for 9E and the managers were reportedly not even offered jobs.

Yeah, I know, this is all NWAs doing, fueling the fire of discontent and competiton. But you know what? In 1997 the pilots here did the right thing. The pilots at Pinnacle have allowed their elected leaders to discredit them and do them a great disservice.

So perhaps the pilots at Mesaba have a right to be suspect of Pinnacle as we try to extend our level of brotherhood to our peers in the red tail family.

The only way to defeat managment's whipsaw tactics and achieve good contracts for all is too be for all.

I certainly appreciate all of the Pinnacle folks that have expressed thier support for us now, as I recognize it is vital. As will ours be when the tables turn in the future. I look forward to welcomming 9E pilots into our info picket lines.

So SeaX there is history, and to many of us here at XJ it seems like we have been the 'bigger' group, offering jobs, to our own detrement, when NWA tries to pit us against each other. And in return we recieve the cold shoulder from the the 9E MEC when the situation is reversed.

And despite this treatment, we continue to strive for brotherhood, to be the 'bigger' group.

I am not trying to 'bash' 9E pilots, I count good friends amongst their ranks. I am trying to highlight that we must work together, that as individuals we must be vocal in telling our MECs that this is what we expect.

And no, I do not begin to think that Mesaba pilots are somehow better than 9E pilots simply due to the past. I do think that our union leaders are blessed with fantasitc vision for the future, and an unwavering sense of duty to the line pilots they represent, a connection that they work hard to maintain.
 
SEAx - not trying to pick any fights here. But if your last post was a remark in reference to my comment about "Simply the Best" - it was not PCL bashing. I was stating the fact. That video I would imagine was spwned from the fact that XJ was THE BEST PLACE to work for a long time. The ATW award I think is what gave them the idea for this video. I realize it wasn't a patented slogan by Mesaba - but it's really sort of funny that now PCL is using the same slogan. Whatever - it's trivial crap and I'm sorry you took offense to the comment.


See you in the hubs...

FO
 
One provision of the letter of agreement was that if the situation were to be reversed, the MECs would need to meet and work out a reciprocal deal with conditions no less favorable for Mesaba pilots.

So with Mesaba shrinking, furloughing pilots (thankfully they have been recalled) and losing airplanes while Pinnacle gets CRJs, hires and migrates North what happens to this agreement?

Nothing. The pinnacle mec does nothing, splits hairs over how the transfer of flying isnt the same as '97 or some cr*p. Pardone my language, but that is a load of b*llsh*t.


LOA 21.g reads:
In the event that a transaction such as the one which gave rise to this Letter of Agreement occurs in the future, where such transaction involves in a net loss of pilot positions at Mesaba and a net gain of pilot positions at Express, it is hereby agreed that the parties shall enter into a Letter of Agreement to provide for the transfer of Mesaba pilots to Express, under terms and conditions no less favorable than the terms and conditions of this Letter of Agreement.

First off there has been no transactions between XJ and 9E since this LOA except for the 11 B model Saabs that 9E signed the leases over to XJ last year. Retirements and changes in company staffing models are not transactions. 9E has also retired nearly 20 aircraft in addition to the 11 B models lost to XJ last year since the first CRJ hit the property. When XJ absorbed 9E's MSP flying we lost almost 40% of our flying overnight. Yet when XJ posted their capacity statistics for May they had a 3.1% INCREASE in ASM's year over year. Where is this shrinking you are talking about???? 9E has also closed domiciles, displaced senior captains out of their chosen domicile, and displaced captains to fo's all in the same timeframe that XJ pilots have had to endure.

If you think brotherhood means rolling over and offering a seniority grab or captains seats over your unfortunate situation that nowhere near resembles what went down in '97 you are crazy. Your MEC has let this issue idle because it is a dead end road. Our MEC chairman arranged a preferential hiring agreement for any of your pilots that wanted to come over but was humiliated when NOT A SINGLE pilot (furloughed or active) showed any interest after the ground work was laid.



See my login name? See my signature? I am no longer a CWASaab driver because of 9E flights into CWA, specifically overnights. Or how about we talk to the folks at stations like ATW, LNK, and ELM? A pay cut to work for 9E and the managers were reportedly not even offered jobs.

I guess you prefer that your mother company continue to loose market share to other carriers serving CWA with RJ's. When you lost stations at ATW, LNK, and ELM it was an even swap for three of our southern stations. Your people did not take a pay cut. Their pay was frozen until their longevity at 9E exceeded their frozen rate. This is the same pay treatment that LOA 21 offered for transferring pilots. I don't know if managers were offered a management position within 9E. It would be pretty stupid for 9E to hire outside managers and I'm sure the management at our former stations got the exact same treatment.


I will support XJ pilots to the bitter end. I will continue to walk your picket lines and, if it comes to it, pay strike assessments and contribute to any funds for the continuation of your benefits. You guys deserve everything you are asking for and I sincerely hope you get it but get your facts straight and freed from emotion when degrading our pilots or our MEC.
 

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