Mesaba Rapes Labor

[sf3boy]

I never said that the reps were anything. They do a great job at representing the pilot group. All in all I am just a little upset that we tried so hard to get regional pilot pay closer to where it could possibly be deemed a professional job, only to give it all away 1 year later.

I know I know, well see some growth....maybe. It is just too bad that we all took this job in the first place for such low pay, DetoXJ included, not just the brand spanking 5 year new hire FO's and are forced to live with it forever. It's just sad all the way around. Hopefully after a 20% paycut we will be able to get some aircraft on the property and keep our pilots out of the street......again.

 

[captpetefam]

Current Chest Pounder says...

I never said that the reps were anything. They do a great job at representing the pilot group. All in all I am just a little upset that we tried so hard to get regional pilot pay closer to where it could possibly be deemed a professional job, only to give it all away 1 year later.

I know I know, well see some growth....maybe. It is just too bad that we all took this job in the first place for such low pay, DetoXJ included, not just the brand spanking 5 year new hire FO's and are forced to live with it forever. It's just sad all the way around. Hopefully after a 20% paycut we will be able to get some aircraft on the property and keep our pilots out of the street......again.

Well said sf3boy. We all took the low, crappy, non-livable pay to get into XJ. Just look around at the other airlines; our contract is NOT out of line. We are right in the middle of pack.

So, call me a chest-pounder; a guy who won't back up what he says. Complain about how this industry sucks and doesn't pay. Complain about how Mgmt is out to $crew us all and then take the golden-parachute. Complain about how our walking off isn't going to do a darn thing to change this industry. Buy now I ask you... what's the answer? Honestly. I'm not trying to be a prick flame-baiter. I seriously want to know, what is the answer to this awful mess?

I will say, for the record, and you can hold me to it, I will vote no for concessions if given the opportunity. I'm tired of this whole, "If we only give this... then good things are GOING to happen. Oh... Oh... but if we only give this... THEN good things will happen. Oh... wait... I REALLY mean it this time... If we give this... then good things will happen." When does it all end? When do we start seeing some return for the giving? When will it be enough to finally see some growth?

I truly want to know... What's the answer?

PS - only educated and professional responses, please.

 

[kmox29]

When does it all end? When do we start seeing some return for the giving? When will it be enough to finally see some growth?

I truly want to know... What's the answer?

PS - only educated and professional responses, please.

I don't think there is an answer Capt. Not during this downturn. Management has the upper hand once again. The courts will back them. Our government will back them.

I will vote 'no' for concessions as well. We'll have to see what happens. I just know that, once again, we have no barganing power.

 

[FlyingFerris]

I think if you truly wanted to bring what's going on in the industry today to the eye of the general public is if ALPA struck not just airline wide, but line wide. Deprive people of travel, bring our issues in light to the public, and put a stop to this raping of one airlines pilots and then on to the next. Long before my day similiar things happened and actually worked. I also know this wouldn't be pretty at all and would result in very deep bad blood all arround, but right now I doubt many managers are sitting arround a camp fire with pilots singing "kumbya."

Will this ever happen probably not, would I like to see it happen you bet I would. It would hopefully stop the Walmartification of our profession.

 

[de Pez]

In bankruptcy there is no "vote"...A judge determines what is in best for the Company (shareholders), and then the employees either accept the imposed concessions or leave. I believe that a "strike" would be an illegal job action and subject to a punitive response by the court. It is not like self-help in a contract negotiation.

There may be a number of opportunities over the long haul to renegotiate pay concessions or add/retain jobs, however in the near term, the decisions being made are not those of the employees..In fact they may not even be those of the Mesaba management. With bankruptcy laws changing on Monday, and Northwest maintaining control over Mesaba's schedules, tickets, aircraft deliveries, and solvency like a giant puppet-master, there may have been no real choice.

This has occurred despite the fact that Northwest clearly had quite a bit of cash on hand when it elected to seek refuge under the bankruptcy umbrella, and use that protection to divest itself of it's pension obligations, aircraft leases and contracts... Bankruptcy is being used as a tool...to gain those things that could not be gained by any other legal means... not that this type of action should be legal. However that's the reality of it...

Ultimately, it comes down to this...Words can be twisted to mean anything you like, but actions are what matter..They reveal the true thoughts of those controlling the situation..And the management at all of the companies who are currently "right-sizing" and becoming "lean and competitive" do not really care about the individual employee. Their job is to make money for the stock shareholders. They view it from a completely different perspective than the employees...It's not just that they think of themselves as better leaders than you, or better accountants, or better thinkers even...It's simply that they believe that they are better people than you....You fight for years through the Union for that 3% pay raise, they have their 3 million dollar golden parachute. You complain about scheduling and working conditions after flying 7 legs out of Detroit, in January..while they sit in plush conference rooms discussing their portfolio with other VP's.. Why wouldn't you look at the world differently. What makes you think this situation is any different?

 

[xjlifer]

^^^^^^^^^
Bingo!

 

[saabservant]

I second. These management pukes won't be happy until we work for free and live in a trailer park. Many fo's cannot afford anything else in a major metro area. Concessions to an already average contract? For what it takes to get here and stay here? NO. To take it from the judge and live to fight again, or leave and STFD are our choices. Not good.

 

[Terry Hunter]

I also agree...

MAIR did NOT declare bankruptcy, but where does MAIR get their income from? If NWA declares bankruptcy because it has missed payments to vendors (e.g. Mesaba), then tell me that Mesaba has missed some payments to MAIR....
So, NWA is pulling out a bunch of airplanes; but you should not be able to declare bankruptcy for what hasn't happened yet.

This is exactly why the laws are changing.

Mesaba declared bankruptcy because of some overdue A/R's. MAIR made 7.5 million last year (FY 2005), even after all the losses from Big Sky are taken out. The pilot contract works! It got us growth - It is making Mesaba and MAIR money, and it is fairly compensating the pilots. It was fair to the management to go out and shop for more business.

Sorry, XJ Mgmt, but you have to do what every else (read: Comair) is doing first: It's called "Downsizing". You're idea of downsizing is laying off 13 new hire pilots, and offering a voluntary furlough for 32 pilots???

Good heavens, Gophers!

 

[KaptainKarl]

'Are we REALLY gonna do it this time? Or are we just gonna load the gun, pull the hammer back, then slowly ease it back down so that we can unload it again?'

I love it. Pretty much sums up the attitude at XJ.

I will vote 'no' for concessions as well. We'll have to see what happens. I just know that, once again, we have no barganing power.

Read: I will biitch and moan, but when it comes down to it...... yess i need that check, small as it will be. I wanna work.

 

[TinGoose1]

Someone posted that they think withdrawing service after a court injunction would be a violation of the law. Well, they were wrong. You have the right, after the courts impose the new concessions, to self help.

Those that think things will improve if they "give a little", are out of their minds. College kids starting out working for nothing are less of a threat than you people. At least they don't know that they're killing the profession. If you've flown in the commuter ranks for more than a couple of months, you should know that management will take what it can. They will only take what you are willing to give up. If your already prepared to give concessions, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

To the rest of the Mesaba pilots who are holding the line, my hat goes off to you. Good luck.

 

[RampTower]

These management pukes won't be happy until we work for free and live in a trailer park.

Minus the trailer park, THEN they'll be happy.



:uzi:

 

[screwed_again]

I love it. Pretty much sums up the attitude at XJ.




Read: I will biitch and moan, but when it comes down to it...... yess i need that check, small as it will be. I wanna work.

I love it, new hires, single guys with no responsibilities or married guys with responsibilites who has a wife making good cash calling all the people PU$$IES for not walking out on the job. You are a big man, Kaptain Karl. Just not that easy for sum people. Do what you need to do and let people do whats best for themselves.

 

[KaptainKarl]

Whoa!!
Back up. I got no problem with someone giving in, or settling, or caving, or "doing what's best for themselves". JUST DON'T COME ON THIS BOARD AND TELL EVERYONE YOU AREN'T GOING TO GIVE AN INCH. DON'T TELL US HOW TOUGH YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY IT. DON'T TELL US HOW READY TO WALK YOU ARE. DON'T EVEN THINK OF USING THE WORDS "walk, strike, close the doors, or not going to give"

Tell us " I am going to do what is best for myself. I am a person who thinks of myself and myself only. "

 

[PCL_128]

Someone posted that they think withdrawing service after a court injunction would be a violation of the law. Well, they were wrong. You have the right, after the courts impose the new concessions, to self help.

Actually, that's not a sure thing. This has never been tested in the courts before, so it's still up for debate. The airlines think that self-help is illegal in these cases, ALPA thinks it's legal. Both sides have their legal briefs prepared, so it's up to a judge to decide who's right. The law isn't exactly clear on the subject and there is no case law yet. We won't know the real answer until someone tries it.

 

[avrodriverj85]

Whoa!!

Tell us " I am going to do what is best for myself. I am a person who thinks of myself and myself only. "

Spoken like a true ALPA rep. I'm placing a wager at the local book here in Vegas, that Wychor throws ALL of the Fo's under the bus, to save what's left of the senior pilots careers.

 

[kmox29]

Whoa!!
Back up. I got no problem with someone giving in, or settling, or caving, or "doing what's best for themselves".

That's nice to know. Interesting words you use to describe someone who takes a different approach than you.

JUST DON'T COME ON THIS BOARD AND TELL EVERYONE YOU AREN'T GOING TO GIVE AN INCH. DON'T TELL US HOW TOUGH YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY IT. DON'T TELL US HOW READY TO WALK YOU ARE. DON'T EVEN THINK OF USING THE WORDS "walk, strike, close the doors, or not going to give"

Since you quoted me earlier, I though I'd add a little info. I'm not a AMFA drum beater. I do not believe in concessions. I was a chairman for the strike committee during our contract. Stop generalizing.

Tell us " I am going to do what is best for myself. I am a person who thinks of myself and myself only. "

Unless you live under a rock, this is how the industry works. Don't you remember the NWA strike? Remember how they were going to "reward" us with a flow through for striking with them? That lasted until it was going to cost them something.

If we walk, we walk. If not, then fine. My only point is that no one should believe that we are going to better the industry or make some sort of statement by walking off the job.

 

[CarRamRod]

What Is Everyones Point?

This is a wonderful place to speak your mind, Keep it comming but the only one getting worked up over this is 1/100 th of the pilot group. Yea this sucks the major big one but what are you gonna do? If you can find something bigger and better, stop your bitchin and do it. I am in the same boat as all of you and until the fat lady is singing I will try to keep doin what I'm doin. When she sings, hopefully she doesn't suck.....This is the job, the industry, and look around.....we as pilots are not the only profession getting the shaft....

You think life is bad, turn on the 5:00 news and listen.......Our lifes seem a little better now don't they......?????????

 

[screwed_again]

Whoa!!
Tell us " I am going to do what is best for myself. I am a person who thinks of myself and myself only. "

I don't get it, if you want me to do what you want me to do, aren't you only thinking of yourself? In the end, don't we do what is best for ourselves?

And, how do you know all the chest pounders don't mean what they say???? Can you verify this???

So long KaptainHOTKarl!

 

[Rossa]

Spoken like a true ALPA rep. I'm placing a wager at the local book here in Vegas, that Wychor throws ALL of the Fo's under the bus, to save what's left of the senior pilots careers.

He won't get the chance, they're going to do some fancy footwork, petition the judge to let them furlough out of order, thereby taking the highest paid out of the equation - Wychor may even be one of them!
Then they're going to exercise options on CRJ's (only they'll be 70 - 90 seaters), replace the DC-9's with eitheer us, or 9E in them, thereby reducing the # of seats in the market, while keeping their routes / slots open with cheaper everything! By the time we realize what is going on, it will already be too late and people like Wychor will have to either swallow their pride / principles and fly the bigger jets, to keep their jobs and income going or the SAAB will go very senior (not going to happen).
Think I'm talking out of my a$$??? Just wait, if you keep your ears open, listen to the Chief pilots, the training dept. and anyone who has been up north on training recently, then this scenario may be closer to the truth than you think!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Anyone hear about the comment that slipped from a sim instructor at Bombarier recently??? Something about how he couldn't understand why we were training in a -200 when the remainder of our orders are to be filled with -700's.... All speculation, but curious if anyone else had heard that????