Mesaba Rapes Labor

[captpetefam]

Will they?

We've been told that any significant "deals" between ALPA and management would involve membership ratification. In that case, I don't think it will matter if our MEC has bollocks or not, I think our pilot group has already made up their mind.

MM

So, when the BK Judge and MGMT agree to throw out our contract, will we get to vote on that? I don't think so.

I also believe most pilots would vote "no" IF we had a chance to vote. My big question is that WHEN we don't get a chance to vote, will those same "irrate" members decide to strike or not? Will they be willing to walk off the job or keep on working? That's what I don't have confidence in.

I will walk off if given the chance and I hope all the others will as well. It IS time to put a stop to this. I'm tired of pointing fingers at everyone else; the big question is not what everyone else did or who caused it but WHAT WILL WE DO?? I will admit it is easier for me to walk off as an FO since I can look in the local Poe-dunk newspaper want ads and find jobs that pay me more than what I'm making now. It's not that easy of a decision for all those AVRO CA making $60-95/hr. I hope they DO make the decision to walk off with us but I'm not holding my breath.

Good Luck,

CP

 

[Larcifer]

Wfff

I don't understand why everyone is so upset with management. With the motto " Will Fly For Food" being the battle cry what does everyone expect. We reap what we sow. If you want to know what is wrong in this industry just look in the mirror.

 

[airmasn]

I don't understand why everyone is so upset with management. With the motto " Will Fly For Food" being the battle cry what does everyone expect. We reap what we sow. If you want to know what is wrong in this industry just look in the mirror.

Dude go crawl back up your husband's ass... your opinion is an easy one to have when youre not at a regional trying to eeke it out like we are.

 

[DetoXJ]

Only one thing will change regional new hire pay. That is when entry level pilots out of college stop accepting these jobs. The entry level pilots coming out of the college programs don't even consider the starting pay, they just want the job/uniform/status/ ect. ect. The usual players are on the XJ ALPA message boards pounding their chests and ranting on about being "Martars" because they don't want to be "Whores". Ironic thing is that according to their defenitions they have been whoring themselves out for a long time.

 

[kmox29]

We can and should walk off the property if Management forces us into concessions. Just remember one thing:

Walking off the job at Mesaba and burning the f*cker down will not change the industry one bit. AMFA proved this theory very recently. All walking will do is put you out of a job (a poor one, I know). Management will jump with their golden parachutes. You will crash land and (if you so desire) have to start at another regional making 20K per year.

So, walk off and never look back on the premise of pride and self worth, but don't disguise it as "making the industry better".

 

[sf3boy]

All walking will do is put you out of a job (a poor one, I know). Management will jump with their golden parachutes. You will crash land and (if you so desire) have to start at another regional making 20K per year.

This is what DetoXJ doesn't quite get.

All the current FO's are gonna be furloughed. They get to start over.
Bottom half of the captains go back to FO. They get to start over too.

After we give concessions on top of the massive furloughs that management has said will happen (they are honorable and trustworthy men) the only XJ pilots that have anything to lose by walking out are the top 1/4 of the list. The bottom 3/4 lose regardless. Good luck top 25%.

 

[Monster Buck]

[/i]


I understand the scope protection in your contract but if the company (under NWA's direction) asks the bankruptcy judge to void the agreement, then all bets are off. Also, if MAIR is providing the DIP financing, they could require that scope relief be granted as a condition of the loan.

NWA has stated that they're looking to start a "NEWCO" to fly 70 - 100 seater's and this would seem to me to be the easiest turn-key solution for them. I hope like hell I'm wrong but I've been around long enough to know how NWA plays the game

The scope with MIAR is not in a normal section of our contract. It is an additional letter with MAIR ( MY point that section 1 in our contract deals with Mesaba Aviation). Yes anything in the world on paper can be challenged in court. Some things are stronger than others. MY point is that our scope is the strongest and maybe the only thing strong enough to withstand the attacks. MAIR cannot throw out the letter since MAIR is not BK. But your right, they can ASK for anything, but unlike Mesaba getting out of our contract, MAIR is not afforded the same privelegdes without their own BK. The only point of MAIR and Mesaba not being one and the same that might help us with our additional agreement.

 

[RampTower]

With regards to all this burn the f*cker down and walk away.... as someone stated on our MEC webboard:

'Are we REALLY gonna do it this time? Or are we just gonna load the gun, pull the hammer back, then slowly ease it back down so that we can unload it again?'

I can count the numerous people in the crewroom that "talk the talk", but are they REALLY, without any doubt or hesitation going to walk the walk??

 

[DetoXJ]

With regards to all this burn the f*cker down and walk away.... as someone stated on our MEC webboard:

'Are we REALLY gonna do it this time? Or are we just gonna load the gun, pull the hammer back, then slowly ease it back down so that we can unload it again?'

I can count the numerous people in the crewroom that "talk the talk", but are they REALLY, without any doubt or hesitation going to walk the walk??

Thats because the "Chest Pounders" in the crew lounge are a small minority. They are the most vocal and like to rant but cooler heads always prevail. Then, after the fact, the chest pounders are left on the side lines looking like foolish hypocrites. Just like the guy who doesn't want to be a Whore but is one by his own defenition.

 

[Rossa]

Short sighted!!!

This is what DetoXJ doesn't quite get.

All the current FO's are gonna be furloughed. They get to start over.
Bottom half of the captains go back to FO. They get to start over too.

After we give concessions on top of the massive furloughs that management has said will happen (they are honorable and trustworthy men) the only XJ pilots that have anything to lose by walking out are the top 1/4 of the list. The bottom 3/4 lose regardless. Good luck top 25%.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think your "hit the panic button, no, wait.........what's the point" attitude is unfounded.
Management is going to use what they can to gain concessions.
Whether you or I like it or not, someone is going to be flying 70, if not 90 seaters!! If 9E missed the boat on chpt 11 today, they either know something big is right around the corner for them, or chpt 7 and some golden parachutes are on order.
We are being softened-up for bigger things - we WILL agree to low rates for larger aircraft because if we don't, someone else will!! If anyone wants to walk, management will gldly let them! We started a CRJ program this year so that we could prove to the Feds that we are worthy!! The remaining options WILL be converted to larger aircraft!!!!!!!!!
The AVROs will stay only if the leases are cheaper than dirt! (with 85 seats)
The 10 SAABs will go away and then miraculously reappear in new livery, with cloth seats, etc.... per the original plan!
Let cooler heads prevail, settle down, let our reps know how you feel, but realize that they are not idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[sf3boy]

I never said that the reps were anything. They do a great job at representing the pilot group. All in all I am just a little upset that we tried so hard to get regional pilot pay closer to where it could possibly be deemed a professional job, only to give it all away 1 year later.

I know I know, well see some growth....maybe. It is just too bad that we all took this job in the first place for such low pay, DetoXJ included, not just the brand spanking 5 year new hire FO's and are forced to live with it forever. It's just sad all the way around. Hopefully after a 20% paycut we will be able to get some aircraft on the property and keep our pilots out of the street......again.

 

[captpetefam]

Current Chest Pounder says...

I never said that the reps were anything. They do a great job at representing the pilot group. All in all I am just a little upset that we tried so hard to get regional pilot pay closer to where it could possibly be deemed a professional job, only to give it all away 1 year later.

I know I know, well see some growth....maybe. It is just too bad that we all took this job in the first place for such low pay, DetoXJ included, not just the brand spanking 5 year new hire FO's and are forced to live with it forever. It's just sad all the way around. Hopefully after a 20% paycut we will be able to get some aircraft on the property and keep our pilots out of the street......again.

Well said sf3boy. We all took the low, crappy, non-livable pay to get into XJ. Just look around at the other airlines; our contract is NOT out of line. We are right in the middle of pack.

So, call me a chest-pounder; a guy who won't back up what he says. Complain about how this industry sucks and doesn't pay. Complain about how Mgmt is out to $crew us all and then take the golden-parachute. Complain about how our walking off isn't going to do a darn thing to change this industry. Buy now I ask you... what's the answer? Honestly. I'm not trying to be a prick flame-baiter. I seriously want to know, what is the answer to this awful mess?

I will say, for the record, and you can hold me to it, I will vote no for concessions if given the opportunity. I'm tired of this whole, "If we only give this... then good things are GOING to happen. Oh... Oh... but if we only give this... THEN good things will happen. Oh... wait... I REALLY mean it this time... If we give this... then good things will happen." When does it all end? When do we start seeing some return for the giving? When will it be enough to finally see some growth?

I truly want to know... What's the answer?

PS - only educated and professional responses, please.

 

[kmox29]

When does it all end? When do we start seeing some return for the giving? When will it be enough to finally see some growth?

I truly want to know... What's the answer?

PS - only educated and professional responses, please.

I don't think there is an answer Capt. Not during this downturn. Management has the upper hand once again. The courts will back them. Our government will back them.

I will vote 'no' for concessions as well. We'll have to see what happens. I just know that, once again, we have no barganing power.

 

[FlyingFerris]

I think if you truly wanted to bring what's going on in the industry today to the eye of the general public is if ALPA struck not just airline wide, but line wide. Deprive people of travel, bring our issues in light to the public, and put a stop to this raping of one airlines pilots and then on to the next. Long before my day similiar things happened and actually worked. I also know this wouldn't be pretty at all and would result in very deep bad blood all arround, but right now I doubt many managers are sitting arround a camp fire with pilots singing "kumbya."

Will this ever happen probably not, would I like to see it happen you bet I would. It would hopefully stop the Walmartification of our profession.

 

[de Pez]

In bankruptcy there is no "vote"...A judge determines what is in best for the Company (shareholders), and then the employees either accept the imposed concessions or leave. I believe that a "strike" would be an illegal job action and subject to a punitive response by the court. It is not like self-help in a contract negotiation.

There may be a number of opportunities over the long haul to renegotiate pay concessions or add/retain jobs, however in the near term, the decisions being made are not those of the employees..In fact they may not even be those of the Mesaba management. With bankruptcy laws changing on Monday, and Northwest maintaining control over Mesaba's schedules, tickets, aircraft deliveries, and solvency like a giant puppet-master, there may have been no real choice.

This has occurred despite the fact that Northwest clearly had quite a bit of cash on hand when it elected to seek refuge under the bankruptcy umbrella, and use that protection to divest itself of it's pension obligations, aircraft leases and contracts... Bankruptcy is being used as a tool...to gain those things that could not be gained by any other legal means... not that this type of action should be legal. However that's the reality of it...

Ultimately, it comes down to this...Words can be twisted to mean anything you like, but actions are what matter..They reveal the true thoughts of those controlling the situation..And the management at all of the companies who are currently "right-sizing" and becoming "lean and competitive" do not really care about the individual employee. Their job is to make money for the stock shareholders. They view it from a completely different perspective than the employees...It's not just that they think of themselves as better leaders than you, or better accountants, or better thinkers even...It's simply that they believe that they are better people than you....You fight for years through the Union for that 3% pay raise, they have their 3 million dollar golden parachute. You complain about scheduling and working conditions after flying 7 legs out of Detroit, in January..while they sit in plush conference rooms discussing their portfolio with other VP's.. Why wouldn't you look at the world differently. What makes you think this situation is any different?