Mesaba Rapes Labor

[Rossa]

Fly4hire,

I can't believe you would convince yourself of this nonsense. Mesaba has a very competent group of pilots - with a lot of experience! You guys should try and help us, just like we would like to help you! Unfortunately, it'll soon be out of our hands and you might find your smug a$$ out on the street with the rest of us, or just as bad, we might REALLY be forced to take your job.
Spreading ill feeling on a message board is juvenile! We can see that you guys have been bearing the brunt of this for years, but at XJ the pilots have been fighting the same fight - you guys never took the time to notice! You would rather complain to each other, instead of doing something aggressive and bold! Unfortunately, this pilot group looks ready to take some bold decisions! I say "unfortunately", because you guys never had the ba!!s to do it years ago, when you had the upper hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mesabi Miner]

i haven't been around long enough to make my own opinions but it seems in talking with others that our MEC doesn't have much of a spine and will accept whatever mgt gives us. there aren't many that like the current contract so what makes you think the "it's a great deal for us" won't be said again??

We've been told that any significant "deals" between ALPA and management would involve membership ratification. In that case, I don't think it will matter if our MEC has bollocks or not, I think our pilot group has already made up their mind.

MM

 

[xjlifer]

I think the real problem is NOBODY but a select few knows where the NWA money trail leads. How much dept does Wings or Mair or whatever shell company is controlling 9e have? How much revenue...profit.....loss? I think it would be pretty hard to unravel it all. When Mesaba Aviation enters Ch. 11 and Mesaba Holdings say they will provide D.I.P what does that tell you?

 

[Doug Parker]

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Pilots definately have the ability to make up every penny of pay loss in extra fuel burn. Get your $$$$$'s worth !!!





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[Saabslime]

Originally Posted by Monster Buck
Our protection is in appendix f. 1) any new airline subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. will be staffed by pilots on the Mesaba Pilots' System Seniotity List: 2) ...use our contract 3). all Mesaba pilots get to bid first on the new co.'s positions. 4) all of new co. pilots must be put on Mesaba's pilots seniority list. Also Big Sky...shall not operate aircraft with greater than 19 seats.

In addition our scope in section 1. locks in Mesaba aviation to the scope. This section also covers our scope over successorship, transfer of co. aircraft or merger

I understand the scope protection in your contract but if the company (under NWA's direction) asks the bankruptcy judge to void the agreement, then all bets are off. Also, if MAIR is providing the DIP financing, they could require that scope relief be granted as a condition of the loan.

NWA has stated that they're looking to start a "NEWCO" to fly 70 - 100 seater's and this would seem to me to be the easiest turn-key solution for them. I hope like hell I'm wrong but I've been around long enough to know how NWA plays the game

 

[Yudso]

How does voiding scope to allow more flying at big sky help Mesaba become (more) profitable? The only companies it would help would be Mair (who are not in BK) and Northwest. It would only hurt Mesaba to "farm out" flying. I don't think the judge would go for that. Here's a scenario for the conspiracy theorists: Mesaba/Big Sky merger. XJ pilots stapled.

 

[Saabslime]

The only companies it would help would be Mair (who are not in BK) and Northwest

I think you answered your own question. Everybody knows the only player in the game who really matters is NWA. Since MAIR will be providing the financing they'll want terms that give them the best return on their investment which the judge would agree to. Mesaba gets itself in better shape financially by becoming a much smaller airline with lower overhead.

 

[Fly4hire]

I know how much you hate us regional pilots for stealing your jobs and routes with our trans continent

WFAYTA? Take a chill pill dude. Did I say or infer that? I was commenting on the factual business advantage XJ/PCL enjoy with the ASA.

We are now going to be forced by NWA and XJ management to fly even larger airframes for even less money. ALPA has always said we have to conserve jobs, help make the company profitable, blah blah blah. So we agree to fly an Airbus for just a little less than Jet Blue.

That only happens if NWA ALPA loses that battle, and if so it's not your fault. Most XJ's I have talked to don't want the bigger aircraft there.

Either way, you get your wish. Bad things are going to happen to Mesaba pilots.

Again putting words in my mouth. You have a complex about this whole regional/mainline thing. I wish no ill will to anyone at XJ. Do I want to see you prosper at our expense? No. But if that happens it's because of NWA and XJ management and the judge, not the pilots.

I do have an issue with pilots who do not realize where their hitherto spectacular career growth was coming from. Most do.

Our careers and futures are all intertwined, for better or worse.

 

[Yudso]

As many have said before, the only thing that is wrong with XJ financials is the fact that NWA is not paying us.

 

[Flyin4Free]

As many have said before, the only thing that is wrong with XJ financials is the fact that NWA is not paying us.

absolutely brilliant!!!!

 

[captpetefam]

Will they?

We've been told that any significant "deals" between ALPA and management would involve membership ratification. In that case, I don't think it will matter if our MEC has bollocks or not, I think our pilot group has already made up their mind.

MM

So, when the BK Judge and MGMT agree to throw out our contract, will we get to vote on that? I don't think so.

I also believe most pilots would vote "no" IF we had a chance to vote. My big question is that WHEN we don't get a chance to vote, will those same "irrate" members decide to strike or not? Will they be willing to walk off the job or keep on working? That's what I don't have confidence in.

I will walk off if given the chance and I hope all the others will as well. It IS time to put a stop to this. I'm tired of pointing fingers at everyone else; the big question is not what everyone else did or who caused it but WHAT WILL WE DO?? I will admit it is easier for me to walk off as an FO since I can look in the local Poe-dunk newspaper want ads and find jobs that pay me more than what I'm making now. It's not that easy of a decision for all those AVRO CA making $60-95/hr. I hope they DO make the decision to walk off with us but I'm not holding my breath.

Good Luck,

CP

 

[Larcifer]

Wfff

I don't understand why everyone is so upset with management. With the motto " Will Fly For Food" being the battle cry what does everyone expect. We reap what we sow. If you want to know what is wrong in this industry just look in the mirror.

 

[airmasn]

I don't understand why everyone is so upset with management. With the motto " Will Fly For Food" being the battle cry what does everyone expect. We reap what we sow. If you want to know what is wrong in this industry just look in the mirror.

Dude go crawl back up your husband's ass... your opinion is an easy one to have when youre not at a regional trying to eeke it out like we are.

 

[DetoXJ]

Only one thing will change regional new hire pay. That is when entry level pilots out of college stop accepting these jobs. The entry level pilots coming out of the college programs don't even consider the starting pay, they just want the job/uniform/status/ ect. ect. The usual players are on the XJ ALPA message boards pounding their chests and ranting on about being "Martars" because they don't want to be "Whores". Ironic thing is that according to their defenitions they have been whoring themselves out for a long time.

 

[kmox29]

We can and should walk off the property if Management forces us into concessions. Just remember one thing:

Walking off the job at Mesaba and burning the f*cker down will not change the industry one bit. AMFA proved this theory very recently. All walking will do is put you out of a job (a poor one, I know). Management will jump with their golden parachutes. You will crash land and (if you so desire) have to start at another regional making 20K per year.

So, walk off and never look back on the premise of pride and self worth, but don't disguise it as "making the industry better".

 

[sf3boy]

All walking will do is put you out of a job (a poor one, I know). Management will jump with their golden parachutes. You will crash land and (if you so desire) have to start at another regional making 20K per year.

This is what DetoXJ doesn't quite get.

All the current FO's are gonna be furloughed. They get to start over.
Bottom half of the captains go back to FO. They get to start over too.

After we give concessions on top of the massive furloughs that management has said will happen (they are honorable and trustworthy men) the only XJ pilots that have anything to lose by walking out are the top 1/4 of the list. The bottom 3/4 lose regardless. Good luck top 25%.

 

[Monster Buck]

[/i]


I understand the scope protection in your contract but if the company (under NWA's direction) asks the bankruptcy judge to void the agreement, then all bets are off. Also, if MAIR is providing the DIP financing, they could require that scope relief be granted as a condition of the loan.

NWA has stated that they're looking to start a "NEWCO" to fly 70 - 100 seater's and this would seem to me to be the easiest turn-key solution for them. I hope like hell I'm wrong but I've been around long enough to know how NWA plays the game

The scope with MIAR is not in a normal section of our contract. It is an additional letter with MAIR ( MY point that section 1 in our contract deals with Mesaba Aviation). Yes anything in the world on paper can be challenged in court. Some things are stronger than others. MY point is that our scope is the strongest and maybe the only thing strong enough to withstand the attacks. MAIR cannot throw out the letter since MAIR is not BK. But your right, they can ASK for anything, but unlike Mesaba getting out of our contract, MAIR is not afforded the same privelegdes without their own BK. The only point of MAIR and Mesaba not being one and the same that might help us with our additional agreement.

 

[RampTower]

With regards to all this burn the f*cker down and walk away.... as someone stated on our MEC webboard:

'Are we REALLY gonna do it this time? Or are we just gonna load the gun, pull the hammer back, then slowly ease it back down so that we can unload it again?'

I can count the numerous people in the crewroom that "talk the talk", but are they REALLY, without any doubt or hesitation going to walk the walk??

 

[DetoXJ]

With regards to all this burn the f*cker down and walk away.... as someone stated on our MEC webboard:

'Are we REALLY gonna do it this time? Or are we just gonna load the gun, pull the hammer back, then slowly ease it back down so that we can unload it again?'

I can count the numerous people in the crewroom that "talk the talk", but are they REALLY, without any doubt or hesitation going to walk the walk??

Thats because the "Chest Pounders" in the crew lounge are a small minority. They are the most vocal and like to rant but cooler heads always prevail. Then, after the fact, the chest pounders are left on the side lines looking like foolish hypocrites. Just like the guy who doesn't want to be a Whore but is one by his own defenition.

 

[Rossa]

Short sighted!!!

This is what DetoXJ doesn't quite get.

All the current FO's are gonna be furloughed. They get to start over.
Bottom half of the captains go back to FO. They get to start over too.

After we give concessions on top of the massive furloughs that management has said will happen (they are honorable and trustworthy men) the only XJ pilots that have anything to lose by walking out are the top 1/4 of the list. The bottom 3/4 lose regardless. Good luck top 25%.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think your "hit the panic button, no, wait.........what's the point" attitude is unfounded.
Management is going to use what they can to gain concessions.
Whether you or I like it or not, someone is going to be flying 70, if not 90 seaters!! If 9E missed the boat on chpt 11 today, they either know something big is right around the corner for them, or chpt 7 and some golden parachutes are on order.
We are being softened-up for bigger things - we WILL agree to low rates for larger aircraft because if we don't, someone else will!! If anyone wants to walk, management will gldly let them! We started a CRJ program this year so that we could prove to the Feds that we are worthy!! The remaining options WILL be converted to larger aircraft!!!!!!!!!
The AVROs will stay only if the leases are cheaper than dirt! (with 85 seats)
The 10 SAABs will go away and then miraculously reappear in new livery, with cloth seats, etc.... per the original plan!
Let cooler heads prevail, settle down, let our reps know how you feel, but realize that they are not idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!11