Mesaba Rapes Labor

[WTF-Over]

Mesaba files bankruptcy and vows to rape a pillage labor. Immediatly anounces increase in benifit costs..

 

[xjlifer]

I bet they don't even give us a reach around...not even a tickle

 

[sf3boy]

Reason enough right there not to give anything to managment in ways of concessions.

Foley and Spanjers must either be idiots at business or just out and out crooks. Either way, they drove their company into bankruptcy. Way to go!!! You both should be very proud.

 

[CubanSmoker]

I bet they don't even give us a reach around...not even a tickle

That tickle will be in the form of dry, 50 grit sandpaper (that really good purple 3M stuff). KY is one of the expenditures that is now to be cut thanks to the Ch11 filing today.

Didn't you get that memo?

 

[Saabslime]

Any rumors about management looking to toss the Big Sky scope agreement so NWA can have their NEW low cost subsidiary to fly the 100 seater's?
Just curious as this seems to be the way things are headed when looking in from the outside.

 

[Yudso]

Any rumors about management looking to toss the Big Sky scope agreement so NWA can have their NEW low cost subsidiary to fly the 100 seater's?
Just curious as this seems to be the way things are headed when looking in from the outside.

My .understanding is that the scope agreement between the pilots and MAIR, therefore Mesaba can't touch it. Someone please tell me I'm right.

 

[jpeace02]

can someone seriously answer the question as to how mesaba aviation can be chptr.11 and holdings has over a 100 million? it seems to me that would be the same as united airlines in bankruptcy while ual is solvent? just wondering. former xj guy. you guys have a phenominal pilot group over there has to be one of the best in the industry. good luck to you all.

 

[328dude]

you guys have a phenominal pilot group over there has to be one of the best in the industry. good luck to you all.

Yea, what he/she said.

 

[profit]

For every penny those Motherf***ers try to take, I will make sure to take 2 back. TRUST ME.

 

[FSIGRAD]

Kind of curious how my health insurance jumps from $150 a month to $250 the same day we declare BK......didn't make the headline at mymesaba.

 

[avrodriverj85]

Kind of curious how my health insurance jumps from $150 a month to $250 the same day we declare BK......didn't make the headline at mymesaba.

Good luck to all the mesaba pilots still around.

It's criminal what Foley and Spanjers and NWA are doing to this company and it's employees. Maybe someone will discover SEC wrong doings and send Foley and Spandex to a "Federal Pound 'em in the A$$" prison for their crimes. Wonder if Spanjers would be jingling his keys then?

 

[Monster Buck]

My .understanding is that the scope agreement between the pilots and MAIR, therefore Mesaba can't touch it. Someone please tell me I'm right.

Our protection is in appendix f. 1) any new airline subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. will be staffed by pilots on the Mesaba Pilots' System Seniotity List: 2) ...use our contract 3). all Mesaba pilots get to bid first on the new co.'s positions. 4) all of new co. pilots must be put on Mesaba's pilots seniority list. Also Big Sky...shall not operate aircraft with greater than 19 seats.

In addition our scope in section 1. locks in Mesaba aviation to the scope. This section also covers our scope over successorship, transfer of co. aircraft or merger.

IMHO this is the only thing that stopped the new crj going to Big Sky.

 

[Fly4hire]

can someone seriously answer the question as to how mesaba aviation can be chptr.11 and holdings has over a 100 million?

Look at the rate of cash burn. The profits there were a "gift" from NWA to help show losses at the mainline. Both XJ andPCL were getting fuel subsidized at $0.80/gallon and empty seats paid for if it was feeding NWA. Look at Indy air to see your profits sans NWA subsidy.

That IS coming to an end with re-negotiated air service agreements. I'm sure XJ saw the writing on the wall and acted sooner thn later. Sort of like flying to a bad wx destination, holding, and making the bingo decision rather than pressing on and ending up low fuel or out of gas.

Focus: is this a self funded or DIP financed BK?

 

[sf3boy]

Fly4hire,
Here is something for ya to think about. I know how much you hate us regional pilots for stealing your jobs and routes with our trans continent Saabs, but if we Mesaba pilots really get pinned into the corner guess what? We are now going to be forced by NWA and XJ management to fly even larger airframes for even less money. ALPA has always said we have to conserve jobs, help make the company profitable, blah blah blah. So we agree to fly an Airbus for just a little less than Jet Blue.

Or we may end up walking out and let you guys fly the Saab to FSD and CAK for $35k per captain.

Either way, you get your wish. Bad things are going to happen to Mesaba pilots.

 

[profit]

Look at the rate of cash burn. The profits there were a "gift" from NWA to help show losses at the mainline. Both XJ andPCL were getting fuel subsidized at $0.80/gallon and empty seats paid for if it was feeding NWA. Look at Indy air to see your profits sans NWA subsidy.

That IS coming to an end with re-negotiated air service agreements. I'm sure XJ saw the writing on the wall and acted sooner thn later. Sort of like flying to a bad wx destination, holding, and making the bingo decision rather than pressing on and ending up low fuel or out of gas.

Focus: is this a self funded or DIP financed BK?

I am so TIRED of some of you mainline IDIOTS talking this trash. Fuel subsidy sure. Do you have any idea of what the lease costs are vs. how much NWA charges XJ for them? How about all the other parts of the ASA.

The biggest issue BY FAR is how NWA books the revenue. They can slant it either way. But there is a HUGE problem with your argument. We all know that NWA has always been one of the most frugal carriers out there. Why do you insist that XJ and 9E were created to BURN cash. Under your premise, we only lose money for NWA. Doesn't sound frugal to me.

And you can spout all you want about CASM numbers. Yet due to the smaller stage lengths for the regionals, our TRUE RASM numbers are much higher as well.

Stop using Independence as your whipping toy. Trying to equate apples to oranges is MORONIC. Their problem is a revenue problem. Tickets for 59$, 79$? Nobody can make profit at those levels. I give Independence management credit for flipping the bird to United, since they knew how much profit United made on them. It was just bad luck that they tried to do it at a time when fuel costs doubled.

Look, I didn't want to be a regional pilot my WHOLE FREAKING life just like anyone else here. But the truth is, there never would have been this problem if the mainline MECs had given any scope up in the first place.

 

[sf3boy]

Focus: is this a self funded or DIP financed BK?

Yes, Mesaba Holdings has offered to be DIP with the money that Mesaba Airlines generates from NWA who only keeps Mesaba around to show a loss for tax season.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Note to self: Do not tie myself to one customer...Do not tie myself to one customer...Do not tie myself to one customer...

 

[n25na]

Our protection is in appendix f. 1) any new airline subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. will be staffed by pilots on the Mesaba Pilots' System Seniotity List: 2) ...use our contract 3). all Mesaba pilots get to bid first on the new co.'s positions. 4) all of new co. pilots must be put on Mesaba's pilots seniority list. Also Big Sky...shall not operate aircraft with greater than 19 seats.

In addition our scope in section 1. locks in Mesaba aviation to the scope. This section also covers our scope over successorship, transfer of co. aircraft or merger.

IMHO this is the only thing that stopped the new crj going to Big Sky.

What is stopping them from throwin' all this out the window now? Or furloughin' out of seniority? I hope our MEC is ready to throw down

 

[Flyin4Free]

I hope our MEC is ready to throw down

i haven't been around long enough to make my own opinions but it seems in talking with others that our MEC doesn't have much of a spine and will accept whatever mgt gives us. there aren't many that like the current contract so what makes you think the "it's a great deal for us" won't be said again??

 

[Yudso]

4Hire,
I understand your comparison of XJ and Indy. The only difference is the code share and XJ has been losing money for NWA for almost 20 years. By the way, I'm being sarcastic. Take your issuses elsewhere. We have more important things to deal with.

 

[Rossa]

Fly4hire,

I can't believe you would convince yourself of this nonsense. Mesaba has a very competent group of pilots - with a lot of experience! You guys should try and help us, just like we would like to help you! Unfortunately, it'll soon be out of our hands and you might find your smug a$$ out on the street with the rest of us, or just as bad, we might REALLY be forced to take your job.
Spreading ill feeling on a message board is juvenile! We can see that you guys have been bearing the brunt of this for years, but at XJ the pilots have been fighting the same fight - you guys never took the time to notice! You would rather complain to each other, instead of doing something aggressive and bold! Unfortunately, this pilot group looks ready to take some bold decisions! I say "unfortunately", because you guys never had the ba!!s to do it years ago, when you had the upper hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mesabi Miner]

i haven't been around long enough to make my own opinions but it seems in talking with others that our MEC doesn't have much of a spine and will accept whatever mgt gives us. there aren't many that like the current contract so what makes you think the "it's a great deal for us" won't be said again??

We've been told that any significant "deals" between ALPA and management would involve membership ratification. In that case, I don't think it will matter if our MEC has bollocks or not, I think our pilot group has already made up their mind.

MM

 

[xjlifer]

I think the real problem is NOBODY but a select few knows where the NWA money trail leads. How much dept does Wings or Mair or whatever shell company is controlling 9e have? How much revenue...profit.....loss? I think it would be pretty hard to unravel it all. When Mesaba Aviation enters Ch. 11 and Mesaba Holdings say they will provide D.I.P what does that tell you?

 

[Doug Parker]

.


Pilots definately have the ability to make up every penny of pay loss in extra fuel burn. Get your $$$$$'s worth !!!





.

 

[Saabslime]

Originally Posted by Monster Buck
Our protection is in appendix f. 1) any new airline subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. will be staffed by pilots on the Mesaba Pilots' System Seniotity List: 2) ...use our contract 3). all Mesaba pilots get to bid first on the new co.'s positions. 4) all of new co. pilots must be put on Mesaba's pilots seniority list. Also Big Sky...shall not operate aircraft with greater than 19 seats.

In addition our scope in section 1. locks in Mesaba aviation to the scope. This section also covers our scope over successorship, transfer of co. aircraft or merger

I understand the scope protection in your contract but if the company (under NWA's direction) asks the bankruptcy judge to void the agreement, then all bets are off. Also, if MAIR is providing the DIP financing, they could require that scope relief be granted as a condition of the loan.

NWA has stated that they're looking to start a "NEWCO" to fly 70 - 100 seater's and this would seem to me to be the easiest turn-key solution for them. I hope like hell I'm wrong but I've been around long enough to know how NWA plays the game

 

[Yudso]

How does voiding scope to allow more flying at big sky help Mesaba become (more) profitable? The only companies it would help would be Mair (who are not in BK) and Northwest. It would only hurt Mesaba to "farm out" flying. I don't think the judge would go for that. Here's a scenario for the conspiracy theorists: Mesaba/Big Sky merger. XJ pilots stapled.

 

[Saabslime]

The only companies it would help would be Mair (who are not in BK) and Northwest

I think you answered your own question. Everybody knows the only player in the game who really matters is NWA. Since MAIR will be providing the financing they'll want terms that give them the best return on their investment which the judge would agree to. Mesaba gets itself in better shape financially by becoming a much smaller airline with lower overhead.

 

[Fly4hire]

I know how much you hate us regional pilots for stealing your jobs and routes with our trans continent

WFAYTA? Take a chill pill dude. Did I say or infer that? I was commenting on the factual business advantage XJ/PCL enjoy with the ASA.

We are now going to be forced by NWA and XJ management to fly even larger airframes for even less money. ALPA has always said we have to conserve jobs, help make the company profitable, blah blah blah. So we agree to fly an Airbus for just a little less than Jet Blue.

That only happens if NWA ALPA loses that battle, and if so it's not your fault. Most XJ's I have talked to don't want the bigger aircraft there.

Either way, you get your wish. Bad things are going to happen to Mesaba pilots.

Again putting words in my mouth. You have a complex about this whole regional/mainline thing. I wish no ill will to anyone at XJ. Do I want to see you prosper at our expense? No. But if that happens it's because of NWA and XJ management and the judge, not the pilots.

I do have an issue with pilots who do not realize where their hitherto spectacular career growth was coming from. Most do.

Our careers and futures are all intertwined, for better or worse.

 

[Yudso]

As many have said before, the only thing that is wrong with XJ financials is the fact that NWA is not paying us.

 

[Flyin4Free]

As many have said before, the only thing that is wrong with XJ financials is the fact that NWA is not paying us.

absolutely brilliant!!!!