Mesaba in KATL

[XJohXJ]

And Delta's DCI Contract requires ASA to do 80% of the Connection flying out of Atlanta. If ASA is a great example of how Delta runs wholly owneds, then Mesaba will learn. Don't get me wrong here, welcome to the ATL. Delta will siphon any and all money that Mesaba makes, and will give you just enough to survive and operate. Just ask the Comair guys how it is to be owned by Delta. Maybe if you're really lucky, Delta will send some of their Managers over to make the whole process complete. Need I give you a resume of how Skip Barnette (ASA), Brian Lebrecque(ASA), John Selveggio (Comair), and anybody else who ran these Companies fared?

Trojan

Wow, what a great lesson: Our corporate owners will suck every nickle from our operation, and leave us hanging. Never heard of that before...

Oh wait, yeah, we had that bankruptcy thing, where MAIR (where are they now?) sucked a hundred million or so away from us, and then we had to declare BK, because we were soooo pooooor, when all of our money was sitting as cash in the bank just one shell corporation away.

Look guys, we get it, we aren't all new to the industry.

NEWSFLASH:

Delta is giving us flying right now because doing so is the option which gives them the biggest bonus checks. When that is no longer the case, Delta will slash us to the bone and give the flying somewhere else.

We've spent way more time as the red-headed step child than as the golden boy.

Been there, done that, and the wheels keep turning round and round.

 

[USCtrojan]

Wow, what a great lesson: Our corporate owners will suck every nickle from our operation, and leave us hanging. Never heard of that before... Oh wait,
yeah, we had that bankruptcy thing, where MAIR (where are they now?) sucked a hundred million or so away from us, and then we had to declare BK, because we were soooo pooooor, when all of our money was sitting as cash in the bank just one shell corporation away. Good thing we have these DCI vets to educate us.

Apparently you need educating if you aren't aware of the 80% DCI agreement in effect for the next 11 and a half years. That means 20% for everyone else. What will your cut be?

Trojan

 

[XJohXJ]

I don't expect anything from Delta. Do you?

 

[USCtrojan]

I don't expect anything from Delta. Do you?

I expect Delta to honor their DCI Contract. What percentage of that 20% cut will XJ get?

Trojan

 

[NEWSOUTH]

This is gonna be so much fun!!!!

Mesaba, the proudest pilot group in North America. XJ has always been a better pilot group then PCL and always will be. But now, Mesaba is better then ASA, Comair, and Skywest. I can't wait for XJ pilots to school the rest of the DCI carriers. They are the best you know. Sooo much fun!!!

XJ has finally found someone else to educate. They don't win, they win big. They go big. They really should be mainline you know. Sooo much fun!!!! Yes, baby....yes!

Can I dig the grave? Please!

 

[OCP]

Flybywire is right about the turboprop holding....With very few exceptions, when the jets were holding, the turboprops would come right in under you guys. ATL approach sets in trail separation for jets and for turboprops....when there are only a few turboprops coming in....you hardly ever hold.

I stand corrected. We had to hold back in the Brasilla days, haven't been on a TP sinc then.

 

[XJohXJ]

Apparently you need educating if you aren't aware of the 80% DCI agreement in effect for the next 11 and a half years. That means 20% for everyone else. What will your cut be?

Trojan

Um, I agree with you. I don't want your flying. I'm not concerned with what amount of the 20% of ATL flying goes to XJ. I do know about ASA's agreement for 80%. I don't want to work in ATL, personally.

I also know that XJ has no control over what Delta does, and don't think we are guaranteed anything from anyone. I agree that all regional airlines only answer to the mainlines they serve.

Did you read my posts?

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Um, I agree with you. I don't want your flying. I'm not concerned with what amount of the 20% of ATL flying goes to XJ. I do know about ASA's agreement for 80%. I don't want to work in ATL, personally.

I also know that XJ has no control over what Delta does, and don't think we are guaranteed anything from anyone. I agree that all regional airlines only answer to the mainlines they serve.

Did you read my posts?

Oh, stop it already. You know you want all the ATL flying. It will help you in Snow-Town, Mo-Town, or No-Town. Plus you will provide a better product. You guys could probable provide a better product for the 777. I mean you all have the best safety record in North America, right?

Tell the truth.

 

[buscap]

AWWWWW C'mon!!!

I'll just come out and say it.

It sucks big dirty butts that XJ, Peanuckle, Skywest and whomever else are in the ATL doing flying that ASA should be doing!!!

Oh yeah... Comair, Mesa and sheetytaco too!!!

Time for a Coke sing-a-long commercial now.

Let's all share a crew lounge!!!!

blah blah blahh

My airline can beat up your airline!!!

 

[Tarzan]

Thanks you Tarzan and the rest of the DCI boyz for reminding me and many XJ pilots exactly what contract 2001-2004 and Ch11 was all about. It must have escaped our minds, how fun those years were.

Don't lecture any Mesaba pilot on how we got where we are today. We know very well, since we are carrying those sacrifices on our backs, everyday. So, who the heck are you to educate us as to the reasonings behind the current state of affairs at XJ?

Where were the rest of the regional pilots when Mesaba shrank, sacrificed and saw its darkest days? Oh, that's right... growing, prospering, riding the wave and furthering their careers. Now that it's our turn, the rest of our "brothers" throw rocks, call us sell outs, treat us like job stealers, undercutters and lecture US on how the industry works? That's rich.

First, I'm not knocking you guys on this stuff. I am knocking the attitudes of how XJ is taking on a new DCI flying. Other than that, Welcome. I'm not going back to see who posted that it wasn't due to CH 11. It was that which gave the rates that make you guys an attractive work force for Delta right.

Second... Sacrifice? Hardly. That stuff was forced on the XJ pilot group due to reorganization. If you want me to acknowledge it as sacrifice, I'll be happy to toss the Mesa name your way. However, it wasn't the case. I don't begrudge Pinnacle their flying either. They haven't taken one for the team to get the planes. They stuck to their guns. You guys didn't have the choice. It is what it is. Lighten up with the Holier than Thou BS.

 

[OUPilot]

wasn't the 80 percent part of the atl flying based on perf nums? since the numbers weren't there, that 80 percent doesn't really mean much. not my fight, but I did see a forum about it earlier. delta will find a way out of the 80 percent

 

[trip]

Delta's CEO has a long history with Mesaba and respects what our company will now bring to the table; a safe, economical and reliable regional carrier for the new Delta. It's as simple as that

The new chest thumpers on the block, thats some funny stuff!

 

[DoinTime]

No one is gloating, just stating the facts. My statements are based on "fairly credible" information. I'll say it again: Delta Airlines Inc. wants Mesaba's new base in ATL to be a large as the DTW base as soon as possible. What is so hard to understand about that?

Looks like XJ is going to slash their presence in DTW huh? It all makes sense now. :bomb:

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well this ALPA "brotherhood" is working out just great now....isn't it....:uzi:

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Welcome to Atlanta Mesaba.
Welcome to holding for no reason..
Welcome to having your ontime factor down the tubes....
Welcome to the armpit of the south....
:bomb:

I hear GoJets is hiring...maybe you would be more happy there.

 

[USCtrojan]

wasn't the 80 percent part of the atl flying based on perf nums? since the numbers weren't there, that 80 percent doesn't really mean much. not my fight, but I did see a forum about it earlier. delta will find a way out of the 80 percent

ASA's performance numbers have hit well over the mins. since Feb. We'll see, but I doubt it.

Trojan

 

[Simon Says]

ATL the armpit of the south? Hardly! That glorious title hands down, MUST go to MEM.

As for XJ in ATL - the only thing we KNOW is that there will be some saab flying, there will be some 900 flying and as of now noo base. So this size of DTW and gloating BS is just that.... BS.

Once again... thanks for the welcome to DCI. Mesaba wasn't born yesterday and neither were the crews. It's not as if this new found XJ fortune is because we're all wet behind the ears and were spawned from Ch11 and this merger. I think we can handle the rigors of ATL and what games DL and DCI will play.

More than half our pilot group is less than 2 years old. From there it takes a sharp curve up on longevity.

 

[Simon Says]

No one is gloating, just stating the facts. My statements are based on "fairly credible" information. I'll say it again: Delta Airlines Inc. wants Mesaba's new base in ATL to be a large as the DTW base as soon as possible. What is so hard to understand about that? Delta's CEO has a long history with Mesaba and respects what our company will now bring to the table; a safe, economical and reliable regional carrier for the new Delta. It's as simple as that.

I hope you are kidding with this post because if you are not...This is exactly what Tarzan is talking about being wet behind the ears.

If you believe we have a long relationship with Delta and that Delta respects us or whatever we bring to the table...LOL, you are one niave S.O.B.

 

[Simon Says]

I expect Delta to honor their DCI Contract. What percentage of that 20% cut will XJ get?

Trojan

Here is another great believer. Let me be the first to tell you that contracts only mean that their is a speed bump before change. That is it. Period, end of story. Do not pin any expectations on a contract that you believe exists and written in stone.

And for the record I don't believe that you have ever read it, and have only heard about it via crew room chatter. If you have read it (for the record, I have not read it or have ever seen it either) I am sure their is all kinds of exit clauses in it.

 

[USCtrojan]

Here is another great believer. Let me be the first to tell you that contracts only mean that their is a speed bump before change. That is it. Period, end of story. Do not pin any expectations on a contract that you believe exists and written in stone.

And for the record I don't believe that you have ever read it, and have only heard about it via crew room chatter. If you have read it (for the record, I have not read it or have ever seen it either) I am sure their is all kinds of exit clauses in it.

15 year Contract. Began end of 2005 I believe. Nobody's read it, as it's behind vaulted doors. There are some highlights to it that mgmt publishes once in awhile. But there are 2 main trigger points. At the end of 5 years, ASA must be the 2nd cheapest in the DCI portfolio. (ASA gets first right of refusal and/or can match competitor like XJT did with Continental) Additionally, our performance must remain above a certain level. I don't know what those levels are, however, if they're the DCI Goals (incentive money goals), then ASA has met them since Feb and continues to. 99.3% for completion. 88% for On Time, etc.

Trojan

 

[Simon Says]

Oh, stop it already. You know you want all the ATL flying. It will help you in Snow-Town, Mo-Town, or No-Town. Plus you will provide a better product. You guys could probable provide a better product for the 777. I mean you all have the best safety record in North America, right?

Tell the truth.

OK, I will bite on this one. First I want to make it clear that you work for or you use to work for Pinnacle that once was called Express 1.

I am not gloating that we have the best safety record in the industry, but I think it is pretty good. I can say that Mesaba has not had a loss of life....EVER....in their company history. Nor has a pilot had a loss of airframe. I say pilot because there is a lossed airframe that a mechanic caused that sits at the approach end of 36L in MEM.

I don't work at Pinnacle, but can you tell me what kind of safety record Pinnacle has.

And I agree that airline culture has a lot to do with a safety record.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

More than half our pilot group is less than 2 years old.

Damn, that would explain some of the XJ CR9 landings I've seen!

 

[Simon Says]

15 year Contract. Began end of 2005 I believe. Nobody's read it, as it's behind vaulted doors. There are some highlights to it that mgmt publishes once in awhile. But there are 2 main trigger points. At the end of 5 years, ASA must be the 2nd cheapest in the DCI portfolio. (ASA gets first right of refusal and/or can match competitor like XJT did with Continental) Additionally, our performance must remain above a certain level. I don't know what those levels are, however, if they're the DCI Goals (incentive money goals), then ASA has met them since Feb and continues to. 99.3% for completion. 88% for On Time, etc.

Trojan

Nice. And that is a great peice to argue on as to why you guys need to retain flying.

I have been at Mesaba since early 98 and have seen contracts come and go. That is all I am saying. They are great argueing points, but can never be written in stone.

As we start to show up in ATL let me be the first to say that here at Mesaba our list holds some very junior pilots. Anybody at Mesaba that has been on the property less than 2-3 years feel free to harass. They don't know much and need a good arse kicking. Even the captains. These guys and girls have no clue what kind of punishment mother Northwest now Delta can hand down. They have only heard the stories and like to tell thier fellow buddies what kind of beat down we have gotten. When in fact they have never seen a beat down before.

And for you Mesaba Pilots that have been here at XJ for less than three years. Keep your mouth shut on this board about Mesaba and our history. You have no idea what is happening at ASA, Comair and the rest. For our time is coming again, and when we do get our arse's handed to us then you may comment. Other than that, shut your hole and just apologize for what is being handed to us.

For the guys at Mesaba that has been around longer than 3 years. Just remeber how we felt.

 

[OUPilot]

ASA's performance numbers have hit well over the mins. since Feb. We'll see, but I doubt it.

Trojan

did the contract say for just months after feb, or all months? if the numbers weren't there, was there a limit to get back on?

 

[JustaNumber]

Nice. And that is a great peice to argue on as to why you guys need to retain flying.

I have been at Mesaba since early 98 and have seen contracts come and go. That is all I am saying. They are great argueing points, but can never be written in stone.

As we start to show up in ATL let me be the first to say that here at Mesaba our list holds some very junior pilots. Anybody at Mesaba that has been on the property less than 2-3 years feel free to harass. They don't know much and need a good arse kicking. Even the captains. These guys and girls have no clue what kind of punishment mother Northwest now Delta can hand down. They have only heard the stories and like to tell thier fellow buddies what kind of beat down we have gotten. When in fact they have never seen a beat down before.

And for you Mesaba Pilots that have been here at XJ for less than three years. Keep your mouth shut on this board about Mesaba and our history. You have no idea what is happening at ASA, Comair and the rest. For our time is coming again, and when we do get our arse's handed to us then you may comment. Other than that, shut your hole and just apologize for what is being handed to us.

For the guys at Mesaba that has been around longer than 3 years. Just remeber how we felt.

Thank you for a post with class.

 

[777forever]

Damn, that would explain some of the XJ CR9 landings I've seen!

PNCL 900s too! Either these guys never heard the term flare before or are chopping the power at 100ft...

 

[USCtrojan]

did the contract say for just months after feb, or all months? if the numbers weren't there, was there a limit to get back on?

Again, nobody knows the specifics except my guess is ASA execs, and SkyWest Inc. I do know that Delta is extremely pleased with ASA's performance and Jerry A. and Richard A. were pretty chummy a few months ago at a Regional Association meeting. That's not to say anything could change at any given moment, but Jerry A. and Company know what they're doing. If there is a problem or ongoing problem, they WILL fix it. They've done more for ASA since BH got here, then the 12 years I've been at ASA previously.

Don't go doom and gloom on me. Yes it's a cutthroat business but ASA is positioned to continue on as a Delta Connx Carrier and other Carriers as well. That's straight from BH. That's why we need to continue to provide an extremely reliable product and BH and Co. will get our costs down. No doubt there.

Trojan

 

[NEWSOUTH]

OK, I will bite on this one. First I want to make it clear that you work for or you use to work for Pinnacle that once was called Express 1.

I am not gloating that we have the best safety record in the industry, but I think it is pretty good. I can say that Mesaba has not had a loss of life....EVER....in their company history. Nor has a pilot had a loss of airframe. I say pilot because there is a lossed airframe that a mechanic caused that sits at the approach end of 36L in MEM.

I don't work at Pinnacle, but can you tell me what kind of safety record Pinnacle has.

And I agree that airline culture has a lot to do with a safety record.

Ok, I'll bite. Express Airlines 1 is PCL. Express 1 was a USPS contract cargo carrier. I'm not trying to get the "ups" on you, just trying to keep it clear.

I will agree that XJ's safety record is what you claim.

I will agree that PCL has no room to talk about their safety record, because it is nothing to be proud of.

I will agree that airline culture has a lot to do with a safety record.

Now, can I get a "pro-post pat on the back".

 

[NEWSOUTH]

PNCL 900s too! Either these guys never heard the term flare before or are chopping the power at 100ft...

Shut your mouth!

 

[Simon Says]

Ok, I'll bite. Express Airlines 1 is PCL. Express 1 was a USPS contract cargo carrier. I'm not trying to get the "ups" on you, just trying to keep it clear.

I will agree that XJ's safety record is what you claim.

I will agree that PCL has no room to talk about their safety record, because it is nothing to be proud of.

I will agree that airline culture has a lot to do with a safety record.

Now, can I get a "pro-post pat on the back".

Arggg....You are right. Express 1 was cargo and you guys were just Express.

New South, you are the man! I give you pro-post kudos. I give the respect to the older 9E guys that they all deserve. You guys have had your noses in the mud since your last contract in 01 that got you the inital CRJ's.