Mesaba/Colgan guys, some 9E news

[Flyer1015]

The latest 9E union memo pretty much makes it clear we will not be getting a JCBA done by Nov 15. What have you guys been told? I hope no one got their hopes up! Pinnacle Corp management is not interested in its employees, they only care about the bottom dollar. For 9E guys, it means continuing to work under a 1999 CBA with no end in sight.

Mesaba guys: The biggest concern for ya'll would be what Pinnacle Corp decides to do after Nov 15. With no JCBA, there's no SLI, but I still see Pinnacle Corp trying to move your RJs out anyway. Hopefully your fragmentation policy can help, but this game will get ugly. At least now both Mesaba and Colgan pilots have gotten a taste of what 9E management is really like. Anyone thinking we'd get a new CBA done in 45 days was drinking some heavy amounts of kool-aid. We've been in neogiations for 5+ years with no decent TA to show for it, did anyone really think we could pull one in 45 days? Oh, and thankfully, we did cancel our DTW picket because the company "told" us they wanted one contract, one list. Hooray! Go union! I won't be holding my breath for that one contract, one list any time soon, as our management's actions have clearly dictated. Amazing how quickly our union would cancel a picket, huh? Management gives us an inch, we give them a mile.

 

[belliott]

Lets just wait until Nov 15 until we all get excited... no sense in starting our ulcers any sooner.

 

[Flyer1015]

Technically, our ulcers started May 2005. Anyway, the writing is all on the wall.

 

[dcfu69]

Funny how all the CJC alpo chest thumpers where blabbing on and on about this new contract in 45 days! I just laugh at you guys.. WTF were you thinking?? I mean this is PNCL mgmt we are talking about. Just own up to it and tell the pilot group the TRUTH! There will be NO contract anytime soon.. (my guess another 1-2YRS) CJC ALPA has been on the road visiting all the bases to talk to the pilots about the progress of the negotiations.. BUT, they are still blowing sunshine up everybody's arse. Another thing... I keep hearing 50 seat pay for the Q400? SERIOUSLY!!! But its ok because its based on CRJ 50 seat pay.. gimme a break. Welp,, Here is one big NO vote. Pay for the seats and the profitability of the plane, not what powers it.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah not sure our combined pilot group has the leverage that it was thought to have (I always wondered how paying 2/3 of the pilot group saved Pinnacle money when they got this new contract done). I laughed when the first email came out how fast things were going when they were breezing through the easy stuff. The the first money issue came up (deadhead pay) and Pinnacle threw back the 75% offer we had on the table when they had offered that in their other TA! What happened? They set that aside. I must say this, have faith in what our unions are doing. They cannot send out an email outlining their strategy and give it away to the very company that they are fighting. lets give it some time and see what happens. I for one am prepared for the worst, that is for sure. A quick question, if they were to just forcefully move the jets, what would they use for bidding for the pilot moved wiht the jets? DOH? I am sure some would say staple, but a lot of us at mesaba would walk

 

[redflyer65]

There's been plenty of people on here saying the PCL union leadership could get it done.

Again, the bottom line is that it's Pinnacle management. They are going to do exactly what they want to do. If you don't like it, they will tell you to sue them...they don't care.

Same playbook for over 11 years and counting. How much more do you need to see?

Cancel anymore picketing events?

 

[Smarta$$]

There are words I want to use to describe pinnacle corp/inc and its executive management, but they would just be blocked from view anyway.

Honestly, Mesaba pilots, be prepared for the worst run airline, and the worst employee treatment you can imagine.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I don't recalling anybody in the Mesaba crew room in MSP saying the contract would be done. The union said there were many reasons for Pinnacle management to get the contract done. Personally I didn't believe it could be done but I know the unions were going to try.

It is stunning to me that some of the posts on here think we at Mesaba have been some pain sheltered, happy go lucky pilot group. I guess you think being under the thumb of NWA was easy. 2003 contract negotiations, loss of 2 fleets, bankruptcy, buy out and now sold. Yep, it's just been great.

I know there is some hard feelings about our supposed great contract. We had it imposed on us. There was some gambles within the contract. This time we happened to be on the winning side. I personally would have preferred to not experience the fowl atmosphere of bankruptcy and forced base changes and commuting. Believe me there isn't much we haven't felt and none of us at XJ would be surprised if something nasty is about ot happen.

But I trust our union. They did well in the bankruptcy - lets all give them a chance. Even our XJ union reps are saying March now.

 

[Flyer1015]

Well I don't trust our union. No wonder we've had massive recalls and replacements (in the union) in the past year and a half.

 

[Flyer1015]

And lets get one thing clear: Pinnacle management has been able to drag us out for so long because the pilot group by n large is spineless. We've constantly been the #1 carrier among regionals for on time performance throughout the past few years. When you're #1 under the current old expired (amendable) contract, you give management no reason to give you a new one. What will Pinnacle pilots do? Take your pick: Nothing, definitely nothing, seriously nothing, most definitely nothing, or all of the above.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

If the JCBA doesn't happen and the RJ's are moved to 9E the only seniority rights the XJ pilots will have is at least what LOA21 offers. At a minimum, this means 1 for 2 seniority for CA's and staple for the FO's. That is the minimum that has to be offered from LOA 21. If it does come down to the LOA and the 9E ALPA gives more seniority to the transferring XJ pilots then they will have to contend with the 9E pilots who would not have their best interests looked after.

What ever happens, it will be a VERY contentious issue. Even though I do have a dog in the fight, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

 

[DoinTime]

The latest 9E union memo pretty much makes it clear we will not be getting a JCBA done by Nov 15.

Are you talking about the joint communication from the Joint Negotiating Committee? The 9E MEC has not been giving detailed negotiations updates.

Technically, our ulcers started May 2005.

Weren't you still taking flying lessons in May of 2005?

A quick question, if they were to just forcefully move the jets, what would they use for bidding for the pilot moved wiht the jets? DOH? I am sure some would say staple, but a lot of us at mesaba would walk

Pilots can only be added to the Pinnacle seniority list by means of a seniority integration or being added as a new hire.

Well I don't trust our union. No wonder we've had massive recalls and replacements (in the union) in the past year and a half.

Two out of 15 have been recalled and that happened over a year ago. Is that MASSIVE RECALLS in your mind? If so, your mind must be pretty small.

We've constantly been the #1 carrier among regionals for on time performance throughout the past few years.

You must not have checked the numbers for any months in the past year. Last I checked we were close to last in the industry.

 

[xjhawk]

If the JCBA doesn't happen and the RJ's are moved to 9E the only seniority rights the XJ pilots will have is at least what LOA21 offers. At a minimum, this means 1 for 2 seniority for CA's and staple for the FO's. That is the minimum that has to be offered from LOA 21. If it does come down to the LOA and the 9E ALPA gives more seniority to the transferring XJ pilots then they will have to contend with the 9E pilots who would not have their best interests looked after.

What ever happens, it will be a VERY contentious issue. Even though I do have a dog in the fight, I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

I Knew some blank would bring up some letter of agreement that has no bearing or is relevant to our current situation. Try crap like that and guess what? Pinnacle will be short a lot of pilots.

 

[Flyer1015]

Are you talking about the joint communication from the Joint Negotiating Committee? The 9E MEC has not been giving detailed negotiations updates.

Yes, thank you for correcting me. I could never count on the 9E MEC giving detailed negotiation updates, what was I thinking? It had to be the joing communication from the JNC.

Weren't you still taking flying lessons in May of 2005?

By our I meant the collective pilot group.

Two out of 15 have been recalled and that happened over a year ago. Is that MASSIVE RECALLS in your mind? If so, your mind must be pretty small.

I include the negotiating committee removals as well. We put in an entire new team, and then barely a few months into negotiating, we removed another main pilot negotiator. So add these numbers in there, and yes, to me it's massive!

You must not have checked the numbers for any months in the past year. Last I checked we were close to last in the industry.

It is true, we are. But this is coming years late and a dollar short.......

 

[altimaklr]

This whole thing is so predictable. Same thing has been happening when it was just 9E-ALPA negotiating. They work on the easiest areas first, and claim great success, while leaving the thorny issues til last (scheduling and money) and then it's a big shock they couldn't get anything done.

 

[Smarta$$]

And what are WE (collective 9E, XJ and 9L pilots)going to do about it? Nothing. The pilots will still fly sick, block out on time, block in on time, fly broken airplanes, fly fatigued and taxi at the speed of NASCAR. And epicmissmanagement knows it. WE are the suckers.

 

[Raskal]

And what are WE (collective 9E, XJ and 9L pilots)going to do about it? Nothing. The pilots will still fly sick, block out on time, block in on time, fly broken airplanes, fly fatigued and taxi at the speed of NASCAR. And epicmissmanagement knows it. WE are the suckers.

What he said.

 

[dcfu69]

Well guys.. Like the makers of Gatorade say: " If you want a revolution you gotta evolve." http://www.gatorade.com/default.asp...ialMediaVideos&utm_content=program?s=g-evolve. Fly your plane safe.... rrreeeaaalll safe. And take a couple sications a year.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I Knew some blank would bring up some letter of agreement that has no bearing or is relevant to our current situation. Try crap like that and guess what? Pinnacle will be short a lot of pilots.

If the JCBA doesn't happen by the 15th and the CRJ's start to be transferred to 9E what makes you think the LOA will not apply? I assume that you've read the LOA?

Here is part of the LOA:

G. RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT
In the event that a transaction such as the one which gave rise to this Letter
of Agreement occurs in the future, where such transaction involves in a net
loss of pilot positions at Mesaba and a net gain of pilot positions at Express,
it is hereby agreed that the parties shall enter into a Letter of Agreement to
provide for the transfer of Mesaba pilots to Express, under terms and
conditions no less favorable than the terms and conditions of this Letter of
Agreement.

 

[Flyer1015]

Back a few years ago when everyone was hiring, 9E MEC took a strike vote, and over 99% of our pilot group voted yes in favor of strike action. But fast forward a few years. The worst recession came, a huge downturn. No other airline hired. Now, the typical 9E pilot didn't want to 'rock the hive.' MANY are tied to Pinnacle and if Pinnacle lets them go, they wil have NOTHING in their hand. And they know it! With no other regionals/majors hiring, most people want Pinnacle to do well. To do very, very well! Hence our performance was top notch through the recession, 2008, 2009. And, as time has gone on, we have more lifers here now. These are people who have hit a point where they realize that their 18-20 day off lines with 3 vacation weeeks and all weekends off is too hard to give up. So more and more people are making Pinnacle their retirement place. The whole mentality has changed. I would love if the strike vote was taken again, I can gaurantee you it won't be anywhere near 99%. Too many people are now tied permanently to Pinnacle, and they do not want to break the umbilical.