Mesaba big annoucement imminent

[EL10]

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions).

What you like so much about XJet CBA verse the XJ CBA? What makes one unbearable verse being a goal in your eyes?

 

[Ace McCoy]

Yeah. Sure. Great. We get to compare our contract to XJ's... and their pitiful CRJ rates which, at D.O.S., were LESS than ours and even now are within a dollar per hour.

And why do you thik that is? Maybe cause we have no 50 seaters? Also, payrates are not the only thing. Sure we could have had a better pay rate but at what cost to the QOL issues like days off and block or better. So I bet at the end of the year our pilots average w-2 would be more than yours with more days off and less block hours.

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions). True, XJ has block or better, a min day rig, and a better trip drop/swap provision, but other than that I'm not very fond of their contract and would gladly strike rather than live under it.

Good luck. I am rooting for you but I would be shocked if Pinnacle could even sign a contract equal to Mesaba's. CMR and XJET are nice goals but you will never get there. It is just too big of a jump from where y'all are now.

 

[Dodge]

True, our rates on aircraft that we don't have and have no real leads on having, are not that good. I, however, did not have to PFT at Mesaba (9E was at the time I got hired), I did not have to find my own place to stay in training, I did not work for free the first 3 months, block or better, full trip cancellation pay.......and this was all in our 1996 contract. The only problem is that I had to sit as an FO for 5+ years. But I worked under a GOOD contract.

I truly hope you can achieve this in your 2007 contract.

 

[Lear70]

And why do you thik that is? Maybe cause we have no 50 seaters? Also, payrates are not the only thing. Sure we could have had a better pay rate but at what cost to the QOL issues like days off and block or better. So I bet at the end of the year our pilots average w-2 would be more than yours with more days off and less block hours.

I'll take that bet... still waiting for a MSA pilot who wants to share a few beers and spend an hour or so comparing month per month using MSA 50-seat rates and work rules against my actual flying - I'd buy as much beer as you could drink if it's more than 5%.

To your first question, to be blunt, your MEC couldn't see the forest for the trees; Saabs aren't the future, Avros aren't the future, 44 and 50 seat jets are your future in the Northwest family BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY FREAKING GROWTH NORTHWEST IS DOING RIGHT NOW!!! I'm still shocked that most of the pilots couldn't see that basic fact; you have to plan for your future, 44- and 50-seat RJ's are it for the next decade or so, and your rates for it suck. If you do get the CRJ's, your group will be kicking themselves for years for not realizing where your bargaining interests SHOULD have gone.

True, our rates on aircraft that we don't have and have no real leads on having, are not that good.

I bet you're wrong about that last part. Northwest IS GOING TO GET MORE 44 and 50-SEATERS. Few, if any, will continue to come to us. Who, therefore, is going to get them? Easy question, easy answer - bet ya a beer on it.

I, however, did not have to PFT at Mesaba (9E was at the time I got hired),

Neither did I.

I did not have to find my own place to stay in training,

Neither did I.

I did not work for free the first 3 months,,,,

Neither did I. Wouldn't have come here if I'd have had to. For that matter, I wouldn't have gone to ANY regional as an F/O, would have stayed in Charter or Corporate, but I digress. You're correct that your contract in it's '96 incarnation is better in most ways than ours, as is your current contract. I still wouldn't have signed it.

Good luck. I am rooting for you but I would be shocked if Pinnacle could even sign a contract equal to Mesaba's. CMR and XJET are nice goals but you will never get there. It is just too big of a jump from where y'all are now.

Time will tell, but I think you'll be surprised. It will definitely get bloody but I'm ready for my vacation (strike) at the earliest possible convenience. I know it will come to that to get any real change so I'm prepared for it and urging my fellow PCL employees to be prepared as well.

 

[DetoXJ]

Yeah. Sure. Great. We get to compare our contract to XJ's... and their pitiful CRJ rates which, at D.O.S., were LESS than ours and even now are within a dollar per hour.

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions). True, XJ has block or better, a min day rig, and a better trip drop/swap provision, but other than that I'm not very fond of their contract and would gladly strike rather than live under it.

Flying this piece of sh*t airplane for the wages we fly them for is shameful, and I am embarrassed to tell people who I work for. Since only a few are moving on to bigger and better things, we'd better be prepared as a pilot group to make this contract count, rather than be another rung to lower the bar upon.

All that aside, I sincerely hope that XJ gets the rest of the CRJ's that Northwest has options for; you guys are due some serious growth and my F/O friends over there are MORE than ready for the CA's seat. I have no fear that you will grow and we will shrink because I also don't subscribe to the whipsaw tactics that management uses; I'm smarter than that and hope that most of my colleagues will use their mind likewise.

Our growth or lack thereof is NOT the fault of the pilot contract or labor costs, but rather management's ability to work with those agreements to make the airline profitable - that's their fu*king job...

Get real Lear. You guys will be lucky to get 1/2 of what we had in our OLD contract and you wont come close to our current contract in pay, QOL, W-2 earnings ability ect. ect. Well, I have to go. I have to get ready for my $1000 premium pay daytrip tomorrow.

 

[smokey999]

[ Well, I have to go. I have to get ready for my $1000 premium pay daytrip tomorrow.[/QUOTE]


Seriously? How? Can you please explain, a little more in detail.

 

[AvroJockey]

Seriously? How? Can you please explain, a little more in detail.

Easily done. 8 hrs at 150% = 12 hrs

$1000/12 hrs = $83.33/hr: An 11 year Avro Captain, which is they type of senoirity required to hold ARJ Capt these days

This doesn't even count any overblocking he does that day!

 

[captpetefam]

Yup, it's coming for sure! A VERY reliable source told me this today: "You will be sharing great news with all the people you love." Then my source went on to say: "Lucky Numbers 5, 9, 20, 24, 34, 44."

Alright... my source was my Wok and Roll fortune cookie. I admit it. But, they're all true... right?

 

[Towelie]

Is anyone else a little bit disturbed by part of the pilot pay-day hotline? I was bothered by the part that said: "At the time the confidentiality agreements were signed, we did not anticipate that it would be this long a period of time in which we could not share the substance of the discussions with the pilot group."

I probably just getting paranoid, but to me that sounds like "this is taking longer than we thought and not going well like we thought." Everyone seems to be giving the impression that this should be a done deal and we are just waiting to spill the beans. I'm not so sure anymore.

So help me God if we don't grow this time... I might just have to apply to be a greeter at Wal-Mart. At least that way the job will never disappoint me.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Do you have to pay for training at Wal-Mart as a greeter?

Also, which Wal-Mart bases are most junior?

 

[Towelie]

Do you have to pay for training at Wal-Mart as a greeter?

Also, which Wal-Mart bases are most junior?

Great... Here we go... Another perfectly good thread turns into a bash Wal-Mart thread.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

You guys will be lucky to get 1/2 of what we had in our OLD contract and you wont come close to our current contract in pay, QOL, W-2 earnings ability ect. ect.

Oh yeah, we have an industry leading 401K, our CEO said so. It's true, ask him

seriously, our current contract leaves much, much to be desired. But isn't it a bit early to predict what we will or will not get?

As far as pay goes, our current CA rates for the CRJ are more than the new contract at XJ. I know that XJ does not have any CRJ's yet, but when they do, those pilots will have to say that they fly it at a lower rate than 9E.

FO's at both companies are being screwed. FO pay at 9E just sucks, plain and simple. Avro FO's are making $11 and hour less than Comair for year 3. Saab FO's do Ok, but at the expense of the Avro guys.

I'm not going to make any promises as to what we will get, but I will promise that if the MEC brings us a POS TA, I will vote no, encourage fellow employees to vote no, and support an effort to recall the MEC.

 

[Towelie]

seriously, our current contract leaves much, much to be desired. But isn't it a bit early to predict what we will or will not get?

Well said, Carl.

Honestly, saying what you will get now is like saying who you are going to take to prom and how you are going to screw her on the first day of school. Your intentions may be noble, but no one has any idea what will happen.

At XJ our union talked a good game. In the end our contract is good but the CRJ rates blow. But seeing as we have ZERO of them, and may never have any of them, I guess I can't say much. Hard to ask for industry leading rates for a plane you don't even have. People made fun of "industry leading Saab rates" but right now that is the best thing we have going.

T-prop driver 'til I die....

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Oh yeah, we have an industry leading 401K, our CEO said so. It's true, ask him

seriously, our current contract leaves much, much to be desired. But isn't it a bit early to predict what we will or will not get?

As far as pay goes, our current CA rates for the CRJ are more than the new contract at XJ. I know that XJ does not have any CRJ's yet, but when they do, those pilots will have to say that they fly it at a lower rate than 9E.

FO's at both companies are being screwed. FO pay just sucks, plain and simple. Avro FO's are making $11 and hour less than Comair for year 3. Saab FO's do Ok, but at the expense of the Avro guys.

I'm not going to make any promises as to what we will get, but I will promise that if the MEC brings us a POS TA, I will vote no, encourage fellow employees to vote no, and support an effort to recall the MEC.

Keep breaking airplanes and providing crappy service, we'll see what kind of contract you'll get.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Somehow I don't think the company will bring up "broken" airplanes in order to strengthen their negotiating position.

"Since you guys broke some airplanes, you must take concessions. That way we can attract more qualified pilot to help prevent that from happening again" -probably won't be heard at the negotiation table.

 

[saabtrash]

True, but they may bring up the fact that it is "ramp control," not "ramp tower", but most of you still can't figure that out. Also that the majority of you used to work in your dad's barbeque sauce factory down in Mississippi and $20 an hour is pretty lucrative compared to that. Bye.

 

[SIR MILO]

All of you just get real, the truth is Horizon is coming over with our 400's and taking all your flying..We can do for cheaper. more efficiently and with more satisfied customers...Why would Northwest keep all you old hags on the job, if you don't believe it, just wait and see...
The delay is the Alaska contracts, after the 15th the news will be out...

 

[Carl_Spackler]

If our pilots don't know ramp control vs tower, I seriously doubt our mgmt does either.

Also that the majority of you used to work in your dad's barbeque sauce factory down in Mississippi and $20 an hour is pretty lucrative compared to that.

Oh yeah, my dad can beat up your dad... if you knew who he was.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

All of you just get real, the truth is Horizon is coming over with our 400's and taking all your flying..We can do for cheaper. more efficiently and with more satisfied customers...Why would Northwest keep all you old hags on the job, if you don't believe it, just wait and see...
The delay is the Alaska contracts, after the 15th the news will be out...

That'd be great except for the small fact that the 400's are just slightly outta scope for NWA. Nice thought though...

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Somehow I don't think the company will bring up "broken" airplanes in order to strengthen their negotiating position.

"Since you guys broke some airplanes, you must take concessions. That way we can attract more qualified pilot to help prevent that from happening again" -probably won't be heard at the negotiation table.

Your negotiations on compensation will probably start out with the pilot negotiators pointing out the company profits after 9/11 and the company pointing out that there is no guarenteeing min. margin from NWA after 2007. Then, you guys will compare yourselves to Comair, Horizon, and ExpressJet. The company will say, "you're right, let's compare you to Comair, Horizon, and ExpressJet"! Then the garbarge will be regurgitated. You guys are sorta like Leon in the Budweiser commercial. Can anyone say "Cost Neutral Contract"!