Mesaba big annoucement imminent

[Towelie]

Be assured that if something occurs that requires a change to our contract, you will be fully briefed, and you will have a vote.

Hmm... You will have a vote as in MEMRAT or as in "call your LEC rep and tell him your concerns before he votes on your behalf"?

This says "if something occurs" but I was led to believe by people in the union and the company that this was more or less a done deal. I have to wonder if the union isn't doing a little "pre-spin" on this one.

This whole thing is getting old and nothing has even been announced yet.

 

[8HRRULE]

Hmm... You will have a vote as in MEMRAT or as in "call your LEC rep and tell him your concerns before he votes on your behalf"?

This says "if something occurs" but I was led to believe by people in the union and the company that this was more or less a done deal. I have to wonder if the union isn't doing a little "pre-spin" on this one.

This whole thing is getting old and nothing has even been announced yet.

It is becoming painfully obvious that it is just "business as usual" at mesaba. There will be no announcement, there will be no growth or otherwise, there will be no CRJs, and there will be no hope. It only makes sense to give the new CRJs to the airlink that already operates them.

 

[Roscoe]

Mel,

From everything I've heard, your description of the announcement is d@mn close. The only thing you stated that I haven't heard is a seat lock for current F/O's. Everything else you've stated is nearly verbatim from reliable sources. Should be soon.

 

[Towelie]

Talked to a union guy yesterday. All he would say is what was said in the VARS this week. They are just waiting until they can talk. I got the impression from him that the deal is done and they are just waiting for ??? to happen.

My guess is that all the agreements are there. All we have to do is wait for NWA to announce the jet award and then we can all talk about it. That way no problems with the SEC.

The seat-locks etc. can then be voted on by the union. He also gave me the impression that it should be soon so it sounds like Mel's 10 days is right on target.

 

[SlapShot]

Does NW own Pinnacle and Mesaba?

If so, why would they want to have 2 companies flying the same equipment type? What is the chance that the new airplane is an Embrarer type?

 

[Napoleon TNT]

...why would they want to have 2 companies flying the same equipment type?

Study the term "Whipsaw Effect" and you will get the answer to that question.

 

[IFIxUmUBrakeUm]

I think this will go in the "Let Down" book again. If there something going on it will fail. just like all the other times in the last 4 years--

If your so sure what is the hold up?? there waiting on something and it will not pass just like all the other times

 

[dondk]

Does NW own Pinnacle and Mesaba?

If so, why would they want to have 2 companies flying the same equipment type? What is the chance that the new airplane is an Embrarer type?

The buzz is 44 seat CRJ's..

As a 9E guy I am pleased for XJ in not only growth but also having ulterior motives. For years our (9E) managment keeps telling us XJ is like apples to oranges. Two different companies, different aircraft, no comparison. When XJ was in contract talks we were getting rid of our Saab's, now we are in talks and they are getting CRJ's? The same as we have.. now let the comparisons begin!

It only feeds the fire when XJ will operate them differently than us and there contract is already different from us.

SO, from a 9E guy.. I trully hope they get plently of them, we need all the ammo we can get in these contract talks. What could 9E management offer short of taking some of ours away and giving them to XJ (true whipsaw in NWA fashion). This is setting up a perfect whipsaw in one hand but a great fight for a better contract in the other. NWA already played the Avro card in XJ's contract, it will only be a matter of time and hopefully by that time XJ will have a decent fleet of CRJ's.

 

[Dodge]

As always, dondk, you have a well thought out post. However, I am convinced that nothing is going to happen at Mesaba. Too many times this management team has dropped the ball on doing anything at XJ other than just coming into the office and doing the same thing that they have been for the last 7 years.

 

[Lear70]

As a 9E guy I am pleased for XJ in not only growth but also having ulterior motives. For years our (9E) managment keeps telling us XJ is like apples to oranges. Two different companies, different aircraft, no comparison. When XJ was in contract talks we were getting rid of our Saab's, now we are in talks and they are getting CRJ's? The same as we have.. now let the comparisons begin!

Yeah. Sure. Great. We get to compare our contract to XJ's... and their pitiful CRJ rates which, at D.O.S., were LESS than ours and even now are within a dollar per hour.

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions). True, XJ has block or better, a min day rig, and a better trip drop/swap provision, but other than that I'm not very fond of their contract and would gladly strike rather than live under it.

Flying this piece of sh*t airplane for the wages we fly them for is shameful, and I am embarrassed to tell people who I work for. Since only a few are moving on to bigger and better things, we'd better be prepared as a pilot group to make this contract count, rather than be another rung to lower the bar upon.

All that aside, I sincerely hope that XJ gets the rest of the CRJ's that Northwest has options for; you guys are due some serious growth and my F/O friends over there are MORE than ready for the CA's seat. I have no fear that you will grow and we will shrink because I also don't subscribe to the whipsaw tactics that management uses; I'm smarter than that and hope that most of my colleagues will use their mind likewise.

Our growth or lack thereof is NOT the fault of the pilot contract or labor costs, but rather management's ability to work with those agreements to make the airline profitable - that's their fu*king job...

 

[EL10]

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions).

What you like so much about XJet CBA verse the XJ CBA? What makes one unbearable verse being a goal in your eyes?

 

[Ace McCoy]

Yeah. Sure. Great. We get to compare our contract to XJ's... and their pitiful CRJ rates which, at D.O.S., were LESS than ours and even now are within a dollar per hour.

And why do you thik that is? Maybe cause we have no 50 seaters? Also, payrates are not the only thing. Sure we could have had a better pay rate but at what cost to the QOL issues like days off and block or better. So I bet at the end of the year our pilots average w-2 would be more than yours with more days off and less block hours.

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions). True, XJ has block or better, a min day rig, and a better trip drop/swap provision, but other than that I'm not very fond of their contract and would gladly strike rather than live under it.

Good luck. I am rooting for you but I would be shocked if Pinnacle could even sign a contract equal to Mesaba's. CMR and XJET are nice goals but you will never get there. It is just too big of a jump from where y'all are now.

 

[Dodge]

True, our rates on aircraft that we don't have and have no real leads on having, are not that good. I, however, did not have to PFT at Mesaba (9E was at the time I got hired), I did not have to find my own place to stay in training, I did not work for free the first 3 months, block or better, full trip cancellation pay.......and this was all in our 1996 contract. The only problem is that I had to sit as an FO for 5+ years. But I worked under a GOOD contract.

I truly hope you can achieve this in your 2007 contract.

 

[Lear70]

And why do you thik that is? Maybe cause we have no 50 seaters? Also, payrates are not the only thing. Sure we could have had a better pay rate but at what cost to the QOL issues like days off and block or better. So I bet at the end of the year our pilots average w-2 would be more than yours with more days off and less block hours.

I'll take that bet... still waiting for a MSA pilot who wants to share a few beers and spend an hour or so comparing month per month using MSA 50-seat rates and work rules against my actual flying - I'd buy as much beer as you could drink if it's more than 5%.

To your first question, to be blunt, your MEC couldn't see the forest for the trees; Saabs aren't the future, Avros aren't the future, 44 and 50 seat jets are your future in the Northwest family BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY FREAKING GROWTH NORTHWEST IS DOING RIGHT NOW!!! I'm still shocked that most of the pilots couldn't see that basic fact; you have to plan for your future, 44- and 50-seat RJ's are it for the next decade or so, and your rates for it suck. If you do get the CRJ's, your group will be kicking themselves for years for not realizing where your bargaining interests SHOULD have gone.

True, our rates on aircraft that we don't have and have no real leads on having, are not that good.

I bet you're wrong about that last part. Northwest IS GOING TO GET MORE 44 and 50-SEATERS. Few, if any, will continue to come to us. Who, therefore, is going to get them? Easy question, easy answer - bet ya a beer on it.

I, however, did not have to PFT at Mesaba (9E was at the time I got hired),

Neither did I.

I did not have to find my own place to stay in training,

Neither did I.

I did not work for free the first 3 months,,,,

Neither did I. Wouldn't have come here if I'd have had to. For that matter, I wouldn't have gone to ANY regional as an F/O, would have stayed in Charter or Corporate, but I digress. You're correct that your contract in it's '96 incarnation is better in most ways than ours, as is your current contract. I still wouldn't have signed it.

Good luck. I am rooting for you but I would be shocked if Pinnacle could even sign a contract equal to Mesaba's. CMR and XJET are nice goals but you will never get there. It is just too big of a jump from where y'all are now.

Time will tell, but I think you'll be surprised. It will definitely get bloody but I'm ready for my vacation (strike) at the earliest possible convenience. I know it will come to that to get any real change so I'm prepared for it and urging my fellow PCL employees to be prepared as well.

 

[DetoXJ]

Yeah. Sure. Great. We get to compare our contract to XJ's... and their pitiful CRJ rates which, at D.O.S., were LESS than ours and even now are within a dollar per hour.

I don't want to be compared to XJ thankyouverymuch; we need to be thinking more along the lines of CMR, XJET, ASA, and AirWhiskey (pre-concessions). True, XJ has block or better, a min day rig, and a better trip drop/swap provision, but other than that I'm not very fond of their contract and would gladly strike rather than live under it.

Flying this piece of sh*t airplane for the wages we fly them for is shameful, and I am embarrassed to tell people who I work for. Since only a few are moving on to bigger and better things, we'd better be prepared as a pilot group to make this contract count, rather than be another rung to lower the bar upon.

All that aside, I sincerely hope that XJ gets the rest of the CRJ's that Northwest has options for; you guys are due some serious growth and my F/O friends over there are MORE than ready for the CA's seat. I have no fear that you will grow and we will shrink because I also don't subscribe to the whipsaw tactics that management uses; I'm smarter than that and hope that most of my colleagues will use their mind likewise.

Our growth or lack thereof is NOT the fault of the pilot contract or labor costs, but rather management's ability to work with those agreements to make the airline profitable - that's their fu*king job...

Get real Lear. You guys will be lucky to get 1/2 of what we had in our OLD contract and you wont come close to our current contract in pay, QOL, W-2 earnings ability ect. ect. Well, I have to go. I have to get ready for my $1000 premium pay daytrip tomorrow.